discussion NTR is not a dream, its a nightmare. Just say NO to NTR!

[Requiem7]

I prefer to be the sole male

 

[User_83869]

Depends on who the love interest is. Like in Sisterly Lust, hell yeah I was gonna help my friend bang his sister.

 

[ツSisterSexualシ]

Another NTR thread? huh

NTR is Unnatural and biologically, subconsciously avoidable. When you see a girl with a male, it's an instant turn off, because your multi-million years evolved brain calculated it's for you and come to a conclusion: she might be infected by this guy's DNA / seed, so it's better to avoid her, due to a lower chance of reproducing with this specie and giving her your own DNA / genes.

Animals rape the shit out of their "new mating partner" if one is already pregnant, to induce miscarriage and get her filled up again but with their own DNA.

Stop NTR, it's harmful for your genes! It's Anti-biological

 

[ThaBoooBThaBoooB's icon]

Well - I should have thought more carefully about the header to this thread. I didn't mean it to be a discussion of individually why people like or hate NTR. Please read the first post here and I'm going to rename the thread.

Ok sry, yeah I misunderstood the purpose of the tread then.
As if it is evolutionary, it is hard to say. I would argue that it's more societal and psychological than an evolved "trait"
Before the crusades and Christianity forced straight relationships and monogamy upon society as the only "right" and allowed option. Humans were more open with their sexuality and relationship. Monogamy has probably always been a thing. But so called "unorthodox" relationships were more normal back then. But jealousy, and the want for control and trust in any relationship, has probably always been a thing.

I would argue that it mostly just comes down to Kinks and Fetishes. Which are mostly created by the environment we grow up in. As we are thought that you are supposed to find one partner and stay with them, being with others (aka cheating) is wrong. Even though if less so now than 50 years ago. It just makes sense that most ppl would not want their partner (or love interests) to be with others (so called NTR).
I know ppl who are in so-called open relationships. They base their foundation on love, honesty and trust. Instead of promises. And they have no problem with their partners sleeping around with other ppl. As long as they don't lie about it.
But they most of the time still don't want to be there when it happens.

So yeah, I would say that it comes down to kinks, fetishes, trust and control if anything.
As if kinks and fetishes are evolutionary. Yeah, ofc. It's a way for the brain and body to process childhood trauma. Most of the time.
You can also learn to enjoy a fetish by a partner.

For your survey question. I would say that most ppl here don't shy away from their kinks. Everyone here is a perv, after all. So I would say that yeah most ppl would prob be honest.

 

[Just Another Rando]

One of the questions that has remained unanswered for me for a very long time is in games where the MC is the guy who gets cheated on or becomes a Cuckold in his relationship, why does it almost (keyword being almost) always seem to be a black man doing the stealing or cheating, I get that in porn it's been perpetuated that the black man is the Alpha dog and the white man is the beta guy, but this is 2024 it's simply not the case anymore. Just curious what other's views and thoughts are about this, is there a reason for this trend other than the obvious porn trope that started this all off?

Do note however that this is not meant to provoke race or hate towards my fellow man no matter their skin complexion, just me finally asking like-minded people about their thoughts and experiences with this.

 

[Deleted member 31]

Meh, I can't really see it to be honest. Human behavior is really complex, and a lot of it culturally and developmentally driven, and not coded in genes. And human sexuality is even more complex than most other human behaviors. If evolutionary factors did play strongly into sexual behavior, we'd see a strong selection towards behaviors aimed at impregnating. Since this isn't the case (given there's such behaviors and fetishes as swallowing, facials, tit jobs, anal, hand jobs, etc., to zoom in to the semen producing side of things), I highly doubt there is any such selection at play here.
.
It might be that sex is a part of pair bonding, and that couples that have a satisfying sex life are more likely to start a family and reproduce, and indulging in fetishes together (whatever those may be) might help keep your sex life interesting. But on the other hand, so many loveless or passionless relationships have had no problem producing plenty of offspring (both the past and present), so even that feels like reaching.
.
If anything, I'd look at the origin of particular fetishes to behaviorism, specifically seeing or doing something that turns you on and gives you pleasure probably results in you seeking it out again, gaining more pleasure from it, so it's a reinforcing loop of a specific behavior rewarded with pleasure. That might cause people to go down a fetish hole if you will, where at worse case they end up seeking really specific things ("if it ain't got a granny midget in a latex gimpsuit whipping a bearded man dressed as a sailor and wearing a diaper, it don't do it for me"). But I know jack shit of psychology, so I'm just spitballing here (and no, I don't mean that as a fetish).

 

[doctorpinch]

I have responses to all three of these posts, which, as I read them, all boil down to "we're programmed to reproduce, so anything that decreases the likelihood of reproduction will be selected against. So necessarily, any kink that doesn't directly promote impregnation must be acculturated rather than evolved.

I think there is an evolutionary explanation that can show how a suite of these non-impregnation kinks could be selected for rather than against. And if there is a suite of kinks that go together in a statistically significant proportion, that's suggestive of evolution at work. If these kinks are necessarily acculturated rather than evolved, then there shouldn't be a correlation among them (or at least, there would have to be an acculturated explanation of why the entire suite of kinks would be acculturated together).

It sounds like it should be worth hitting up the mods to see if they will let me run this survey.

I have the survey designed, but I still need to figure out how to post and run the survey while maintaining anonymity and preserving the integrity of the survey results (i.e., making sure that it can't be taken multiple times). I'm still working on that part.

Thanks for these responses. I can't wait to get this survey posted, so we can start debating the merits of the theory. I don't want to do that in advance of running the survey because having the theory out there could be argued to have skewed the results.

 

[ThaBoooBThaBoooB's icon]

I have responses to all three of these posts, which, as I read them, all boil down to "we're programmed to reproduce, so anything that decreases the likelihood of reproduction will be selected against. So necessarily, any kink that doesn't directly promote impregnation must be acculturated rather than evolved.

I think there is an evolutionary explanation that can show how a suite of these non-impregnation kinks could be selected for rather than against. And if there is a suite of kinks that go together in a statistically significant proportion, that's suggestive of evolution at work. If these kinks are necessarily acculturated rather than evolved, then there shouldn't be a correlation among them (or at least, there would have to be an acculturated explanation of why the entire suite of kinks would be acculturated together).

It sounds like it should be worth hitting up the mods to see if they will let me run this survey.

I have the survey designed, but I still need to figure out how to post and run the survey while maintaining anonymity and preserving the integrity of the survey results (i.e., making sure that it can't be taken multiple times). I'm still working on that part.

Thanks for these responses. I can't wait to get this survey posted, so we can start debating the merits of the theory. I don't want to do that in advance of running the survey because having the theory out there could be argued to have skewed the results.

The one problem I see in this. If I understand you correctly.
Is that you are saying that individual kinks are evolutionary and/or genetic. Which they are not. It's purely a process created of our own personal environment.

I recommend you read up on the psychology of fetishes and how we process childhood traumas if you want to know more.

 

[libre]

Based on evolution, we should be ok if father or brother is involved; just not strangers. But I think some feel worse when it's someone close to them.

 

[MichealIsKing!]

I don't know man this one feels like a god damn Gordian Knot of interweaving of complex shit. That I am to ignorant and lazy to give any real answer to heres my best shot.

My gut feeling feels its origin goes way back to the bad ole slavery days with the young and "curious" owner's daughter going out and having an "experience" with slaves, and pops again during the segregation days with the white woman seeking out sex with the black man and later lying and saying the black man assaulting her so that she can protect her status/relationships. That insecurity over that fear of your wife or daughter going to have that "experience" kinda twisted and morphed into what it is now, but I have zero evidence and this a random porn form so trust everything I said with a grain of salt and please correct and call me a dumbass if I'm proven wrong. Oh just remembered throw in the penis stereotype, mixed with insecurity and fear over the women going to "test" that myth, and you have all the ingredients for this fetish.

 

[User_3471]

Honestly I feel like it’s a double standard if you hate it. I respect your choice of course but what makes me scratch my head is how a person will lose their mind over NTR and be perfectly ok and crave Loli/**** media and fall in love with a 9 year old character (again, your choice and I am ok with that.) that seduces her father.

Me? People cheat….. especially men…. If your moral compass says that it is wrong to cheat, then good for you and stand on that, but do not get up on a pedestal and preach about it when you know that you fap to some daddy putting swimmers in the internals of his pre teen daughter. Why? Because you know you do!! Maybe not that but certainly one of the many other fetishes we come here for. Bestiality, incest, wife sharing and all of the other juicy things. You know you have a moral hang up so don’t bash the next guy that likes to steal your whore of a wife or girlfriend.

 

[User_109438]

I really think it is based on the mindset of the person playing and where they insert themself (no pun intended) in the story.

 

[LUVGAMZ23]

I think that the topic is emotional enough for many that their replies/answers would cause tainted data.

 

[Slaanesh Adept]

I have a hard time understanding peoples reactions.
I can be very possessive/jealous IRL but I have no problem with NTR, I just dont Identify with the characters in that way.

 

[lewdguy69]

Yes there is, I think. It has to do with the biological need to pass genes forward, so the man feels the need to have exclusive possession of the woman to guarantee his genetic inheritance for his offspring. But as I'm not an expert on this, I can't go too deep and I need to make this disclaimer.

And then there is the polemic study that does or not reveal very interesting things>

You must be registered to see links

and

You must be registered to see links

here.
The subject still needs studying it seems. It's confusing.

Recommendation, don't try to rationalize (and put science on it) a discussion that everyone sees as being about something moral and personal taste, you are gonna waste your time. Or at least ask the question in the right place, if there is one.

 

[TemperTempah34260923]

If I were to post an anonymous survey about which kinks are turn-ons and which are turn-offs, do you think folks would respond honestly? I have a theory about why certain kinks are preferred by certain folks and having some actual data would be a nice boost to my ability to publish.

I haven't talked to the moderators about whether they would even allow a survey to be posted, but wanted to get a sense of the community as to whether there would be any interest

talking specifically about the survey -
1. you're always gonna get trolls that won't answer honestly, but even then it shouldn't be that big of a proportion

2. you may get a moderate amount (30-90 people) that can give you data on what sort of fetish/kink interests them, but even if you can make an anonymous survey, the lurkers here may NOT be willing to disclose demographic/personal data - especially considering you probably don't have any enforceable privacy policy.

3. sample size, and sample population, are gonna be a bit of an issue. While lurkers here may come from all walks of life across the globe, because of point 2 and fact that LC is a bit more open to NTR, it is going to be a bit hard to extrapolate meaningful data that can be applied to the general population when this specific sample is already skewed.

4. other regular survey bullshit (e.g statistic stuff, reliability, accuracy, etc).

 

[doctorpinch]

I think that the topic is emotional enough for many that their replies/answers would cause tainted data.

That's what I'm interested in (and worried about). I'm not sure that it would be tainted, though. The fact that people feel strongly about it is likely to make the response more honest. What I'm really interested in is whether there are common other kinks that go with either hatred or love of (or indifference to) NTR. If there are common suites of characteristics/fetishes that go with NTR, that could help prove my idea that there is a common evolutionary root.

 

[LUVGAMZ23]

That's what I'm interested in (and worried about). I'm not sure that it would be tainted, though. The fact that people feel strongly about it is likely to make the response more honest. What I'm really interested in is whether there are common other kinks that go with either hatred or love of (or indifference to) NTR. If there are common suites of characteristics/fetishes that go with NTR, that could help prove my idea that there is a common evolutionary root.

Fair enough. Though I will point from WAY back in my youth, the science that clicked with me was done by Karl Popper, who basically said (paraphrased)

-If you want a certain outcome instead of seeing if the data is valid and where it leads you, you have a bias, as most do, to prove yourself right. As soon as you say "I want my data to prove..." then you're subconsciously trying to prove yourself right.

Now, Popper was pretty much hated in the community, a community that wants to be right and be published.

So WTF does it have to do with your study? Your very first reaction to data taint was "I'm not sure it would be tainted." instead of being perfectly neutral to the data. You could be totally right. Absolutely. But you have to look into yourself as to why that was your reaction.

Now, Popper was 1 guy, just so happens that I love his way of thinking. That's MY bias. You don't have to believe him at ALL. But just keep in mind, you asked, got a reply, and your first thought was "It'll be fine." And it could be. Could be I'm full of shit.

But be careful you don't get the result you want... rather than the result that is.

In any case, good luck with your study. I hope it goes well.

 

[doctorpinch]

Yes there is, I think. It has to do with the biological need to pass genes forward, so the man feels the need to have exclusive possession of the woman to guarantee his genetic inheritance for his offspring. But as I'm not an expert on this, I can't go too deep and I need to make this disclaimer.

And then there is the polemic study that does or not reveal very interesting things>

You must be registered to see links

and

You must be registered to see links

here.
The subject still needs studying it seems. It's confusing.

Recommendation, don't try to rationalize (and put science on it) a discussion that everyone sees as being about something moral and personal taste, you are gonna waste your time. Or at least ask the question in the right place, if there is one.

So these studies are fascinating (and were unknown to me). The fact check review from Reuters is actually not connected to the New South Wales study that is discussed in the first link. The NSW study was published in 2014 (original publication:

You must be registered to see links

- I don't know how to embed links in Firefox...) and the misrepresented findings relate to a 2005 and a 2012 study. The NSW study about neriid flies doesn't necessarily argue that the mechanism is paternal DNA retained by the female. They do offer a series of possible mechanisms (Potential mechanisms of telegony include penetration of maternal somatic cells by sperm, foetal genes in mother's blood, and the ability of RNA to program genome rearrangement (Liu , )) but don't try to defend any particular one.

I'm fascinated by all this and think trying to put up a survey will be very interesting to the community. I think the community here is a resource because it is so open to discussing these issues (not always calmly, but we can hope...).

 

[doctorpinch]

Fair enough. Though I will point from WAY back in my youth, the science that clicked with me was done by Karl Popper, who basically said (paraphrased)

-If you want a certain outcome instead of seeing if the data is valid and where it leads you, you have a bias, as most do, to prove yourself right. As soon as you say "I want my data to prove..." then you're subconsciously trying to prove yourself right.

Now, Popper was pretty much hated in the community, a community that wants to be right and be published.

So WTF does it have to do with your study? Your very first reaction to data taint was "I'm not sure it would be tainted." instead of being perfectly neutral to the data. You could be totally right. Absolutely. But you have to look into yourself as to why that was your reaction.

Now, Popper was 1 guy, just so happens that I love his way of thinking. That's MY bias. You don't have to believe him at ALL. But just keep in mind, you asked, got a reply, and your first thought was "It'll be fine." And it could be. Could be I'm full of shit.

But be careful you don't get the result you want... rather than the result that is.

In any case, good luck with your study. I hope it goes well.

I absolutely agree with you and Popper. That's one of the reasons I want to post my theory (once we have the data) so that others in the community can push back on my conclusions. I'm very sensitive to the idea that I'll read the data the way I want to rather than let the data speak for itself. As Mark Twain said: "There are three kinds of lies in this world: Lies, Damned lies, and statistics."