discussion Anti-Social & Lurker - Hideout spot

[PirateSnow]

So... I disagree with this. Absolutely.
And I think it's a little disingenuous.
Not on purpose! But, hear me out.

Unless we're not looking beyond Disney films or Popcorn flicks, there are plenty of films wher the 21st Century Storytelling Villain isn't a clown.
Speaking of an actual clown - Joker. In Dark Knight Rises. Just came to me. But good example.

The problem isn't 21st Century Sensibilities, its 21st Century Capitalism with a relience on lowest common denominator, created by committee, nepotist hires. It's films that are badly made and badly written. Good films, good villains, are still being written.

You list Marvel fucking up Doom. Did they fuck up Thanos? Thanos WON. He was not a clown in the slightest.
And that's firmly 21st Century, even firmly Disney. And that's a good villain right there.
This is why I said Disigenuous, by the way. Since the same company that ruined Thawn, gave us a good Thanos. In the same Century.
And, even so, the original Star Wars was pretty clownish with it's villains anyway. Thawn was only ever good in the EU - comics and books etc - where characters tend to be more nuanced anyway as pages give more space to breathe.

The problem isn't "lets water down the villains" the problem is "lets hire shit writers who don't know how to write a villain".
And then, there's the other debate... People often don't understand the difference between Hero/Villain Protagonist/Antagonist.

What about Wolf of Wallstreet? Protagonist WAS the Villain. This is a film that also came out in 21st Century.

So, my point, in a very tired and rambling and overly verbose manner. Is that I think blaming a cultural shift towards "clownlike" villains is incorrect. I think it only fuels culture war rhetoric, because it's the kind of stuff people latch onto - "we can't have villains anymore, people are too soft" - etc. We can. We do. It's just that many of the biggest films right now are not exactly written for complex nuances. It's not hard C Culture, it's hard C Capitalism.



Haha. Again, this was in a fictional future where we have complete and total Equity amongst all on earth!

Going to try to join this one.

It's a bit of slavery to the dollar, no? People pay to be entertained, and that doesn't always take the most high brow writing. People who churn content go where the money is.

There are some shows, movies, characters, and villains that have come out in the past few years that are downright genius. Some movies only contain a villain in order to provide a platform for the hero to act heroically. That's a relatively simple function. If they have complex plans, it is only to help the hero's heroics be even more impressive. That's different from creating a true villain, who has motivations that we can understand and even somewhat align with from the darker side of ourselves (vis a vis Wolf of Wall Street).

You know what I have noticed though... a lot of the "good" writing seems to have shifted to episodic series from movies. I know everyone pupu's on Netflix but some of those series are downright spectacular. The good writers are out there, they just aren't as dominant in the hollywood blockbuster releases.

 

[kurgan]

a Bible that Hobbits read

I think hobbits in general spend more time feasting than reading!

 

[Underlord]

All this time I thought Silmarillion was was a Bible that Hobbits read.

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[-Bonk-]

Worth a share with all this Hobbit and Star Wars talk lately

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[Saturnus]

No, is about mediocre products made by mediocre people/companies that try to push an agenda through means that shouldn't be politicied.

But, Disney didn't make Little Mermaid political. They hired a black actress to play a fictional character.
The terminally online culture warrior idiots made it political by saying a black Ariel is bad (or disrespectful or historically inaccurate)

Haha. Again, this was in a fictional future where we have complete and total Equity amongst all on earth!

If that's the case I would pick a good actor. Like Rami Malek

She was Greek/Macedonian, I believe.

We don't actually know who her mother was. Just educated guesses.

I am not a Christian, just a blasphemous atheist.

It's better that way. You don't have to have you r beliefs interfere with reality or basic facts.

 

[TheVampirate]

did you try e-hentai? I made a quick random search(no filters outside of portuguese) and got almost 20k matches. Picking only doujinshi got over a thousand, doujinshi and manga over 10k.

there probably more translated, and non English works there than anyother website I know of.

 

[Monokuma]

A lot of good points. Like really good. But about Thanos... I gotta do this... I'm sorry. I'm very sorry:

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Thanos... did NOT win.
He won the first match, and LOST in the finals. Yes. Yes. The world got changed a bit. But overall, it was back to normal. If you consider that winning, I can't stop you.

Insight into my mind: Thanos winning would have been... it sticks. It's there. Half the universe is destroyed. In the MCU, the Earth has 4 Billion people. Not 8. THAT would have calmed me down for almost a decade!
But it didn't happen. Thanos was dusted. 99.9% of the heroes survived. A day ending in Y for the good worshipping population.
Sucks to be me that I'm evil.

Your points are very valid, I'll admit. I can't comment on Wolf of Wallstreet. It seems to a story based on reality, not that it had had to have happened. I assume that like, in Breaking Bad

Spoiler: IN CASE PEOPLE HAVEN'T SEEN THE SERIES

The villain loses and dies in the end. Or maybe jail. And if not, if he wins as per my definition, like WIN win and it sticks, I might give it a watch.

My version of villain protagonist winning: The villain wins, achieves all their goals, end of franchise, no heroic come back, then end. i.e. Vader kills Luke. Becomes the Emperor. The Empire kills all the rebels. The end. CREDITS.

And yes... I know... it would lose SO MUCH MONEY...

Luvgames... I was about to go to bed. I did a whole "Good night" post and everything... Could you not have waited ten minutes? Who am I? @mime? Who can't leave for the life of him?

Anyway... Right. Let's do this...
Thanos DID win. He retired, happily ever after on his little moon garden.
A Younger, Less Experienced Thanos lost, when he got cocky and jumped through timetravel wormholes.
They're two different characters.

Putting that nerdy little debate aside. (Which, for the record, I really enjoy and when I'm less tired I'd totally go to town on haha).

Your idea of a Villain winning is "End of Franchise"? That would be one of the greatest works of Post-Modern film making, haha. That's a full "drop the mic" moment. And I would LIVE for it. DC should have done it to kill off their Universe... But anyway...
Let's get real a second.
Within your idea of a Villain winning... You would need the world, the universe, the space time continuum to be absolutely utterly obliterated. You're basically saying "I don't want there to be the possibility of any other stories". Why? Because "any other stories" runs the risk of overturning the the "Villains Win"

If we treat the MCU, the Franchise, as a Continuum of stories. Thanos did Win in his story.
Just... Well... Time moves on, and another story happens. Just so happens that in this one the Heroes then won.
It's you who is deciding what is a Match and what is a Final. To him, it was the Final. What he did was reversed, yes. But at what cost? Time, Effort, Lives, Psychological Trauma, Real World Catastrophe, etc.
Not to mention it was, as Doctor Strange establishes, 1 Chance in 14,000,605. We, the viewer, just so happen to be watching that story get told.

Just like in life, where we win today and lose tomorrow. Where we find a $1 on the floor, but then get overcharged for that coffee and can't be bothered to complain. The worlds don't stop. The stories don't stop. The only thing that stops would be the win to end all wins - the absolute destruction of the Universe, whether as part of the story, or whether at a Meta Level where the Franchise just stops and no more stories can be told.

 

[Bleed1Exile😈]

Hey peeps.

7 AM. I might fucked my sleeping schedule...

 

[Underlord]

Luvgames... I was about to go to bed. I did a whole "Good night" post and everything... Could you not have waited ten minutes? Who am I? @mime? Who can't leave for the life of him?

Anyway... Right. Let's do this...
Thanos DID win. He retired, happily ever after on his little moon garden.
A Younger, Less Experienced Thanos lost, when he got cocky and jumped through timetravel wormholes.

Putting that nerdy little debate aside. (Which, for the record, I really enjoy and when I'm less tired I'd totally go to town on haha).

Your idea of a Villain winning is "End of Franchise"? That would be one of the greatest works of Post-Modern film making, haha. That's a full "drop the mic" moment. And I would LIVE for it. DC should have done it to kill off their Universe... But anyway...
Let's get real a second.
Within your idea of a Villain winning... You would need the world, the universe, the space time continuum to be absolutely utterly obliterated. You're basically saying "I don't want there to be the possibility of any other stories". Why? Because "any other stories" runs the risk of overturning the the "Villains Win"

If we treat the MCU, the Franchise, as a Continuum of stories. Thanos did Win in his story.
Just... Well... Time moves on, and another story happens. Just so happens that in this one the Heroes then won.
It's you who is deciding what is a Match and what is a Final. To him, it was the Final. What he did was reversed, yes. But at what cost? Time, Effort, Lives, Psychological Trauma, Real World Catastrophe, etc.
Not to mention it was, as Doctor Strange establishes, 1 Chance in 14,000,605. We, the viewer, just so happen to be watching that story get told.

Just like in life, where we win today and lose tomorrow. Where we find a $1 on the floor, but then get overcharged for that coffee and can't be bothered to complain. The worlds don't stop. The stories don't stop. The only thing that stops would be the win to end all wins - the absolute destruction of the Universe, whether as part of the story, or whether at a Meta Level where the Franchise just stops and no more stories can be told.

Nah he lived like a bitch and died like a bitch. He had a dumbass stupid justification and with all the power all he could think of is that dumb ass ash people.
He won stupidest guy that had the power of the gods in his hands yet uses it the most idiotic way to solve the problem he believes exist.

 

[ccxvidonaferens]

She was Greek/Macedonian, I believe.

Correct and part of the Ptolemy dynasty, the progenitor of which was once one of Alexander the Greats generals I believe. Funny fact but she was her brother Ptolemy XIII's wife so a game based on her life would fit in well here, as well as being considered educational.

 

[Saturnus]

Just like in life, where we win today and lose tomorrow. Where we find a $1 on the floor, but then get overcharged for that coffee and can't be bothered to complain. The worlds don't stop. The stories don't stop. The only thing that stops would be the win to end all wins - the absolute destruction of the Universe, whether as part of the story, or whether at a Meta Level where the Franchise just stops and no more stories can be told.

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Hey peeps.

7 AM. I might fucked my sleeping schedule...

Are you waking up or going to sleep?

 

[4rcan1st]

Hey peeps.

7 AM. I might fucked my sleeping schedule...

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[PsychicJohn]

All this talk about cleopatra and here i am thinking we already have

Spoiler: The purrfect version

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Oh man the conversation moved on quite a bit already since i last refreshed the page

 

[Saturnus]

I don't know why you try to make it sound as I have something against black people, that has never been the issue, it's just the hypocrisy of some people, as I remember there was some problems with the cleopatra series in nertflix, that was portrayed as "historically accurate" but it was not, it even came to the point that a lawyer filed a complaint accusing the series of violating media laws and of attempting to: "distort and erase Egyptian identity".

Just FYI @X-HavenS-X I looked up some articles about that lawsuit:

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"Netflix is trying to provoke confusion by spreading false and deceptive facts that the origin of the Egyptian civilisation is black," he added and called on Egyptians to take a stand against the streaming giant.

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demanding that he take "the necessary legal measures" and block access to Netflix's services in Egypt.
He alleged that the series included visual material and content that violated Egypt's media laws and accused Netflix of trying to "promote the Afrocentric thinking... which includes slogans and writings aimed at distorting and erasing the Egyptian identity".

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"Most of what Netflix platform displays do not conform to Islamic and societal values and principles, especially Egyptian ones," Mahmoud al-Semary said in his complaint, according to the Egypt Independent.

The quotes from that lawyer say enough, don't they?

 

[HuevosAzules]

I literally just popped in to collect my interest

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I'll try to be back on later!
Take care...

 

[-Bonk-]

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I think i see a brother Huevos down there......

 

[HuevosAzules]

Hey there @-Bonk-
Just a quickie...
In and out and that's it

 

[LUVGAMZ23]

Luvgames... I was about to go to bed. I did a whole "Good night" post and everything... Could you not have waited ten minutes? Who am I? @mime? Who can't leave for the life of him?

Anyway... Right. Let's do this...
Thanos DID win. He retired, happily ever after on his little moon garden.
A Younger, Less Experienced Thanos lost, when he got cocky and jumped through timetravel wormholes.
They're two different characters.

Putting that nerdy little debate aside. (Which, for the record, I really enjoy and when I'm less tired I'd totally go to town on haha).

Your idea of a Villain winning is "End of Franchise"? That would be one of the greatest works of Post-Modern film making, haha. That's a full "drop the mic" moment. And I would LIVE for it. DC should have done it to kill off their Universe... But anyway...
Let's get real a second.
Within your idea of a Villain winning... You would need the world, the universe, the space time continuum to be absolutely utterly obliterated. You're basically saying "I don't want there to be the possibility of any other stories". Why? Because "any other stories" runs the risk of overturning the the "Villains Win"

If we treat the MCU, the Franchise, as a Continuum of stories. Thanos did Win in his story.
Just... Well... Time moves on, and another story happens. Just so happens that in this one the Heroes then won.
It's you who is deciding what is a Match and what is a Final. To him, it was the Final. What he did was reversed, yes. But at what cost? Time, Effort, Lives, Psychological Trauma, Real World Catastrophe, etc.
Not to mention it was, as Doctor Strange establishes, 1 Chance in 14,000,605. We, the viewer, just so happen to be watching that story get told.

Just like in life, where we win today and lose tomorrow. Where we find a $1 on the floor, but then get overcharged for that coffee and can't be bothered to complain. The worlds don't stop. The stories don't stop. The only thing that stops would be the win to end all wins - the absolute destruction of the Universe, whether as part of the story, or whether at a Meta Level where the Franchise just stops and no more stories can be told.

First of all, I'm sorry. I meant this as a "Good night. When you wake up there's a message on the machine."

Second, I didn't want young "I'll kill everything." Thanos to win. I wanted old "I'll kill half" Thanos to win.
That would make MCU Earth VERY different, that's all.
And personally, I would have dusted the people that did NOT have Franchises coming as a way to signal that this doesn't HAVE to be reversed.
i.e. dust Black Widow, keep Black Panther, dust Iron Man, keep Doctor Strange, etc...

Third, it wasn't my intent that I wanted an end of franchise thing. As above, it's CHANGE the franchise.

Fourth, End of franchise was actually proposed... by my youngest Aunt. WTF right? She loves comics. She's my cool aunt. She's in her fuckin' 90s. (I did say I was old). I hate taking credit for something I didn't say, hence the above.

She proposed this:
1-Have a 10 year Franchise like the MCU's Infinity Gauntlet. End it. (She liked the ending. She likes heroes. No-one's perfect.)
2-Have a 3 year gap where Disney sells games, tie-ins, etc.. advertising the upcoming stuff to build hype.
3-Have a 10 year Franchise like the MCU's X-Men. End it.
4-Have a 3 year gap where Disney sells games, tie-ins, etc.. advertising the upcoming stuff to build hype.
5-Have a 10 year Franchise like the MCU's Multiverse / Secret Wars. End it.
6-etc...

Is it financially viable? No fucking clue. But the 10 year cycle makes sense to me because actors age, recasting is (somehow) not done, so you don't have that many options. It also adds good jumping on / jumping off points.

Again, I could be full of shit. But please don't take this as pushback. Your points are totally valid. I just don't enjoy the product of those points, and that's totally a me thing.

Here's hoping this comment gets to you AFTER you've gone to bed. If so:
Night. Night.

EDIT = Thought Black WIdow, wrote Thor for some reason. Corrected it.

 

[ccxvidonaferens]

Well it's past midnight for me and I've only just now caught up to the pointy end of the conversations here again and I have work again tomorrow so I need to go. So I'll just leave with this nugget of wisdom from a DragonAge 2 banter conversation between Varric and Fenris;

• Fenris: I notice you hardly ever comment on mages and templars and such.
• Varric: It's a lot of humans in skirts. I get them mixed up.
• Fenris: I highly doubt that. The subject comes up all the time.
• Varric: Tell me about it.
• Fenris: And no opinion? One way or the other?
• Varric: Opinions are like testicles. You kick them hard enough, doesn't matter how many you got.
• Fenris: That's... something.

 

[-Bonk-]

Hey there Bonki
Just a quickie...
In and out and that's it

Quickies can be good. i'll await your return to get the whole package

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