discussion Anti-Social & Lurker - Hideout spot

[micmitja]

Yeah, I'm off to bed a little early today.
Bye everyone, have a nice rest of your day/night!
See you all tomorrow!

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sleep well

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[robotar]

thats a game in my backlog I hope i can play next year

It is so worth it

 

[Monokuma]

The one thing I'll blame Larian for is making CRPG developers think every line needs to be voiced and that they should spend half their budget getting that done, as well as have fewer branching paths and response options. That's not entirely on Larian though, ME really started that bad trend.

One hill I will die on, which I have discussed on here so many times the regulars are probably sick of it, is that Fallout 4 suffered because of Bethesda wanting to join the "Voice Protagonist" trend.
The need to voice two characters, meant a much smaller and tighter script, which meant fewer dialogue options and fewer paths to getting things done.

ME might have started the trend, but it did it right, in my opinion. Because you're playing a character - you ARE Commander Shepard. Someone who exists in this world. So, you can make them an Angry and reckless Commander Shepard or a Kind and Lenient Commander Shepard, but you still tell Commander Shepards story.

In other games, like Fallout, the appeal, to me at least, is that you play WHOEVER you want. By trying to emulate ME, developers are saying "This is a certain characters story, your freedom is now limited".

Anyway. I could just copy and paste the million times I've discussed this...

 

[-Bonk-]

Yeah, I'm off to bed a little early today.
Bye everyone, have a nice rest of your day/night!
See you all tomorrow!

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G'nite Slumster, Bonky 's you

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[HTYYHRK]

Voice acting, if done well, adds so much to a game imo. But if you can't get/ don't have the budget for quality voice actors it is a lot better to be text only. That being said BG3 would not have been as big as it was if it was text only.

When the game is designed around it it does a lot. But if you've ever played Wrath of the Righteous, there's no way a company like Owlcat could have 10 different major character paths with their own dialogue changes and content, and different good/evil/lawful/chaotic options, with the budget that game had if they also had to voice every line. And I believe they said their next game is going to be fully voiced, though I might be misremembering, but if it is it's unlikely to be as expansive.

 

[conzibald]

You have to admit though, my execution was flawless...

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@conzibald , check your dm's

 

[DrZen]

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Welcome to the Legion of Lurkers, @DrZen @Flaming1 @jsmith666 and @Gorion !

Oh, now u can play the Dawg card

Plenty of the big game companies waste their time making games they think we want. Or make games that are designed to just make money.

Wish more companies focused on making a good game that everyone will play and will sell millions of copies.

Exactly... in the past, developers (mostly) were fans of their own games, and as a result they were great, almost like "made by fan for fan".
After the CEOs of big companies decided it was time to make money, these good developers were fired, or the ones that remain are abused with absurd delivery dates and creation limits.
But I have another point to make here:
Some part of this new generation wants everything very fast, very immediate...
Take the example of Cyberpunk. It was supposed to be a great game at launch if it had more time to develop. Of course, today with the patches it's good, but when it launched it had a lot of bugs!

The one thing I'll blame Larian for is making CRPG developers think every line needs to be voiced and that they should spend half their budget getting that done, as well as have fewer branching paths and response options. That's not entirely on Larian though, ME really started that bad trend.

I understand your point... In this case, it's a good discussion that was generated. Imagine us complaining about bugs, the game closing straight away every time starts a run, a bad story, etc.
I really like different paths, variations of your decisions too. But as the saying goes: we can't have it all.

 

[anon670-1]

It still gives the coins

Ok that's good at least... I was worried about all the people I'd already sleazed.

Still unhappy tho

 

[PirateSnow]

Voice acting, if done well, adds so much to a game imo. But if you can't get/ don't have the budget for quality voice actors it is a lot better to be text only. That being said BG3 would not have been as big as it was if it was text only.

The main characters anyway. Some of those voice actors were just phenomenal.

There's other games where it doesn't belong. I'm part of the cabal that is wholeheartedly against voice acted protaganists in Bethesda games, for example (Fallout, Elder Scrolls, etc). I don't mind NPC voice acting but my character should be mute so that they can sound like whatever I want in my head.

 

[Monokuma]

When the game is designed around it it does a lot. But if you've ever played Wrath of the Righteous, there's no way a company like Owlcat could have 10 different major character paths with their own dialogue changes and content, and different good/evil/lawful/chaotic options, with the budget that game had if they also had to voice every line. And I believe they said their next game is going to be fully voiced, though I might be misremembering, but if it is it's unlikely to be as expansive.

Owlcat are going into Publishing, I believe. So they're certainly not lacking for money right now.
That said, I don't think they should do full voice acting. Nor do I think they can fully afford it.

I like the way Obsidian did it in Pillars of Eternity - give us voice acting for the companions, at least their story missions, the rest can be text. The voice acting can give a flavour to important moments, without needing to be present throughout the whole experience.

 

[HTYYHRK]

One hill I will die on, which I have discussed on here so many times the regulars are probably sick of it, is that Fallout 4 suffered because of Bethesda wanting to join the "Voice Protagonist" trend.
The need to voice two characters, meant a much smaller and tighter script, which meant fewer dialogue options and fewer paths to getting things done.

ME might have started the trend, but it did it right, in my opinion. Because you're playing a character - you ARE Commander Shepard. Someone who exists in this world. So, you can make them an Angry and reckless Commander Shepard or a Kind and Lenient Commander Shepard, but you still tell Commander Shepards story.

In other games, like Fallout, the appeal, to me at least, is that you play WHOEVER you want. By trying to emulate ME, developers are saying "This is a certain characters story, your freedom is now limited".

Anyway. I could just copy and paste the million times I've discussed this...

I wasn't even thinking about the protagonist, even BG3 didn't have the budget to do that. But I agree that ME's experience would be way worse without having a voiced Shepherd, for the reasons you stated. I just prefer having more reactivity and options over spending a lot of time doing animations and voice for every NPC interaction in most CRPGs, especially ones based on tabletop where player choice and character options is king.

 

[numpodece]

One hill I will die on, which I have discussed on here so many times the regulars are probably sick of it, is that Fallout 4 suffered because of Bethesda wanting to join the "Voice Protagonist" trend.
The need to voice two characters, meant a much smaller and tighter script, which meant fewer dialogue options and fewer paths to getting things done.

ME might have started the trend, but it did it right, in my opinion. Because you're playing a character - you ARE Commander Shepard. Someone who exists in this world. So, you can make them an Angry and reckless Commander Shepard or a Kind and Lenient Commander Shepard, but you still tell Commander Shepards story.

In other games, like Fallout, the appeal, to me at least, is that you play WHOEVER you want. By trying to emulate ME, developers are saying "This is a certain characters story, your freedom is now limited".

Anyway. I could just copy and paste the million times I've discussed this...

I agree. If a game give me choices and multitude of conflicting pathes, i dont think VA is essential for the MC. Like in fallout, pillars of eternity, pathfinder, etc.
If the story is about a character, like in Mass Effect and The Witcher, i see no problem.
And if the choices are futile I prefer they are VA, like in Final Fantasy (even the 14) or Dragon QUest

 

[ccxvidonaferens]

Part of it, just like Shakespeare, is the writing styles have changed.

Hell, in the past twenty years the way we communicate is so vastly different. Forums such as this have disappeared and you get reddit, facebooks, and discord.

I honestly prefer the bulletin board style so much more.

That's so true. As an example of how writing styles and conventions have changed I would really suggest giving books like Don Quixote (Cervantes), War and Peace (Tolstoy) and Moby Dick (Melville) a try. Don Quixote in particular is considered by academics to be the first 'modern' novel. I will admit that I think the word modern is doing a great deal of heavy lifting there. First published in 1605 and 1615.

Edit :- Also as a Brit how could I have neglected to mention Dickens. Or Conan-Doyle. Or Pratchett.

 

[DrZen]

Yeah, I'm off to bed a little early today.
Bye everyone, have a nice rest of your day/night!
See you all tomorrow!

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Good night, Slummm! Sleep well

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Make sleaze positive the best react!!!

I'm all favor for just getting the reaction scores of all your sleazes
And your alter/alter ego @anon670-1 too (yeah, that's right)

 

[Amman]

I too am going to call it a night.

 

[robotar]

When the game is designed around it it does a lot. But if you've ever played Wrath of the Righteous, there's no way a company like Owlcat could have 10 different major character paths with their own dialogue changes and content, and different good/evil/lawful/chaotic options, with the budget that game had if they also had to voice every line. And I believe they said their next game is going to be fully voiced, though I might be misremembering, but if it is it's unlikely to be as expansive.

I do want to get around to playing it. I like the approach some games have where they will voice the main quest while the side content is text only. I feel that's a good compromise if you don't have the budget. I'm all for more choices but presentation is also very important so you need to find a balance between the two imo. If I have the choice between a game with lots of options but no voice acting and one with less paths but voiced I'll play the second one first every time.

 

[micmitja]

I too am going to call it a night.

sleep well

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[anon670-1]

I'm all favor for just getting the reaction scores of all your sleazes
And your alter/alter ego @anon670-1 too (yeah, that's right)

haha just playing, we covered this awhile back, I'm a clone that escaped from evil surgeons lab

 

[Saturnus]

There are indeed stupid and racist people out there that complain about the most absurd things.

Yeah I have looked into the original story, and would have liked a movie for a more mature audience.

So... it's just the black mermaid thing then?
I mean, c'mon man!

Then putting aside fictional characters, why do they changed the ethnicity of historical characters like Julius Cesar, Cleopatra or Joan of arc (among others)?

If they're trying to make a historical movie, I think you should use someone of the same or similar race, sure.
But, if it's a fantastical story with someone who has the name Julius Cesar, Cleopatra or Joan of Arc, then who gives a shit?
Do you think the King Edward from the show My Lady Jane is disrespectful because he is a black actor?
More or less disrespectful than the fact that PEOPLE CHANGE INTO ANIMALS IN THE SHOW?

Plenty of the big game companies waste their time making games they think we want. Or make games that are designed to just make money.

Wish more companies focused on making a good game that everyone will play and will sell millions of copies.

I'm sick of the top of the line graphics for every new big game. Make the game fun, leave it 1080p and 60 fps.
If you want 4k, wait for mods or updates. If you want 8k, go fuck yourself.

So, here’s the thing... Or my take, at least, for what it’s worth.

In an absolutely ideal world, without prejudice, with full equality—anyone can play anyone. Unless their race, gender, or sexuality is a defining part of their characteristics and story. Anyone can play anyone. Tom Hanks playing MLK, I know, was just an extreme example, but it’s a good example of what I think still wouldn’t work—since being Black was a very important part of MLK’s history—but most other changes could work and wouldn’t matter in the slightest.

Same with the "Wakanda played by Asians" thing earlier.

Let’s have a female Einstein and a white Denzel Washington biopic.

Imagine the exploding heads on Twitter.

What you're saying is stupid on both sides, is really just the difference between Equality and Equity.

Oh no, I can see the discussion coming on this one.
I agree with you almost 100% (white Denzel, you crazy bear)

If "Hey" gets a Positive+1 then Sleaze definitely should.
Also, why is Purple Heart neutral? That definitely should be positive too.

@mime, answer for your crimes! I know you're the one in charge of all reactions.

I always thought that the purple heart was for being injured while posting

 

[Monokuma]

That's so true. As an example of how writing styles and conventions have changed I would really suggest giving books like Don Quixote (Cervantes), War and Peace (Tolstoy) and Moby Dick (Melville) a try. Don Quixote in particular is considered by academics to be the first 'modern' novel. I will admit that I think the word modern is doing a great deal of heavy lifting there.

Edit :- Also as a Brit how could I have neglected to mention Dickens. Or Conan-Doyle. Or Pratchett.

Cervantes,
Melville,
Tolstoy,
Dickens,
Conan-Doyle,
Pratchett.

You need a few entries after after Cervantes to get the timeline truly fleshed out. Austen, maybe? Milton?