discussion VN Ren'Py [HS] Little Green Hill [v0.13] [Director Games]

[CF432]

This was what I was told about the game, this seems like it isn't the case.

I'm prone to rant and write essays, I wrote all this right after playing the latest update and I am rather frustrated by it and maybe I overreacted (that's why it is a spoiler tab). Maybe I'm reading too much into things, but this was my feelings on completing the update so... If anyone is interested, then give it a read.

Spoiler: If anyone cares to read:

So much for "some lesbian stuff, not every girl will be a lesbian, and no NTR (unless you really think *only* dicks cause NTR this game has it)."

I'm not a fan of lesbian stuff, as I made clear before, but this post made me think it would be a minor part of the game, three or four girls at most. But it seems like more and more is showing up every update with more and more of the girls. What started as two girls kissing and two others in a shower is now adding up to close to a dozen. Especially when you take all the innuendo at face value. Are *any* of the girls not already fucking someone? It seems like all the girls are already corrupted and then what's the point? MC is just a living dildo for a bunch of lesbians who don't even really care that he is around at the end of the day because they can just get each other off. At this point why not just make a female MC game with one of the girls as the main character with how little action the MC is getting in comparison to all these girls who are clearly banging non-stop off screen. Or just get rid of the pretense of there being a main character at all and just show the lesbian sex scenes? Why was he even hired, the girls are clearly already corrupted into fucking and being slutty if he is there or not so what's he adding? It seemed at first like he was coming in to corrupt the place, to bang the girls, but job’s done it seems the girls are sluts so whatever they need to be corrupted for is a go. Mission accomplished.

Even the little sister is being corrupted by the mom. Who even insulted her son as a beta or simp (can't remember exactly which), which he’s starting to feel like as he was taking pic of them making out like a cuck. First, she feels her up, then she kisses her, and it seems like mom is *more* into the sister than the brother as she masturbates to her panties and is worried about them fucking. So much for high emotional relationship and nothing happening without our permission, mom is ready to bang little sister in front of brother while he cries and jacks it in the corner. She's even getting the aunt to come over to cock block him while at the same time fantasizing about the little sister. The cute twins making out, a bunch of other girls have already had lesbian scenes too and another girl hitting on the sister, right in front of the MC! Like *that* is a classic NTR game move, the bull hits on a love interest in front of the MC and he either tells her not to give him her number or he gets NTRed later. Why can’t harem games just *not* make *every* girl bisexual, or full-on lesbians, who just let the MC join in every once in a while? Lesbian Netorare is still Netorare and these girls are fucking up a storm behind his back without his green light after he has meet them and they and he have shown interest in each other. He has meet them all and is interested in them all and even being set up (I thought) to be the one fucking them all. It feels bad.

Like seeing the twins kiss pissed me off so much. Why couldn't spying on them have been them talking about how cute the MC was and how much they like him, but no, they take the opportunity to make out behind his back because forget the MC (glad he isn't around to get in the way) and the player, two more lesbians. So why should the MC bother with them? They have a relationship and seem to be happy, so what, the MC gets to third wheel? Good for him… except it isn’t. The shy sister could be overheard saying that she wishes she wasn't so shy because she really likes him and then her sister could say something encouraging, but no, forget something romantic and wholesome, have a lesbian make out session in public behind his back and add two more to the lesbian band wagon.

I’m becoming less and less okay with lesbian harem that have a male MC to the side as a living dildo for when the girls fancy a dick. when it was three or four girls out of the big group, I was willing to just let it go, but damn it's all of them it seems. Even the mom, it seems has a preexisting thing with the aunt, so there she goes another point against the so called "high emotional relationship" with the MC. Because he certainly isn’t building a harem of loving (or corrupted) girls here. He is, at best, joining a sex cult or something that is using him for some reason and what is the appeal of used up loli's you get tricked into banging for someone else’s plan? Part of the whole appeal of loli’s (I’ve always thought) was that the MC gets to be the one who gets their first. Who either corrupts them or romances them and they love him.

Sorry for the rant, it just seems like this is so rampant. All but, like, three of the last like twenty harem games that have come out or put out updates have added in lesbian stuff or worse. I just want a simple harem with the MC at the center and the girls being loyal to him and not fucking each other (or other people) behind his back. I don’t know why that is such a big ask. It’s fantasy. I thought it was a loli harem fantasy with maybe three or four lesbians and everything else would be up to the player to let happen, but I guess that's too much to ask for. This isn't feeling like a loli and incest harem, it feels like a lesbian harem where the MC gets the scraps when he happens to be around for them. Nothing better than a slut making the MC "earn it" while she is banging every one of her house mates as soon as she walks away... but yeah, MC has to "earn it." That's another classic NTR move, MC has to work for days, weeks, months earning points to get a kiss, but the same girl bangs the first bull that walks by if you aren't watching her nonstop for more than five minutes.

Unless the future updates take a hard turn *away* from lesbian stuff and the MC actually gets to be the *main* character then I guess this isn't really going to be my kind of game. It sucks too because I really thought it was, but it seems not. No other dicks, but who needs other dicks when all the girls just fuck other girls. I guess maybe I'm already not the target audience. And if I, a loli incest harem fan isn't the target then who the hell is? I think I must not be because the twins who I was probably top six girls most excited for are ruined, the MC is stepping into their already existing relationship so I'm sure the excuse for them is that not going to be in a "high emotional relationship." And the mom is clearly more into the sister, as well as will likely have shit happen with the aunt, and is preparing to cock block the MC, so she's pretty much ruined now too. I might consider staying for the sister and the Albino girl, but now I'll just be afraid every update that they will get some forced stuff tossed on and the MC will just sit there with his thumb up his butt taking pictures again like a good little simp.

Perhaps it is a failing on my part for caring, but I used to think that caring about stories and characters was what the storyteller wanted from the audience. I was interested in the story. What was really going on at Little Green Hill? Why the MC was really there? I was interested in the characters. Then the MC unilaterally decided that he was not just cool with lesbians but wanted to see more and didn't care that girls were doping stuff behind his back. And then it seems like more and more of the girls that I wanted to get to know and that I cared about and wanted to learn about are becoming lesbians and pre-corrupted so why should I get invested? I'm just so tired of being excited for an update only to be hit with this kind of stuff. It may be Netorare or maybe the MC is into it and wants it so which ever NTR means that. But this game has lesbian NTR in it now and it seems to be setting up for lots more.

I would love to be wrong or overreacting, and maybe this is it for lesbian blindsides (but with the twins it really sucks) so maybe the next update I'll learn that no one else is doing anything and the MC *really is* the main character. that he is not just an afterthought for all but the two or three character that seem to actually care about him. Because as it stands it seems like only two or three characters really want him not just because he's the nearest cock and they are in the mood to have that instead of the lesbian feast they normal have. And the mom isn't one of those two or three it seems.

Read that spoiler and I agree with everything you said. I'm also tired of this BS. It ruins the harem kink. Even if the lesbian content would start after they get involved with the MC and the MC and players give the ok for it, it wouldn't be a harem anymore, it would degrade to a polyamory game, that's a HUGE difference! Maybe we should ask for that tag? Would make it easier to avoid these fake harems. The girls are beautiful, but them looking at the MC only as a living dildo and for his cum, yeah sorry, but that's not sexy at all. If I want a lesbian focused game, I look for it, but not in a harem game.

 

[BadJM]

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Top 10 things a mod tell you before your thread get banned.
Btw the censored version was really censored and not just "She is 18."

Yeah... shit like that is happening a lot lately. I hope forums like this start getting more popular so devs don't have to rely on f95 that much. The mods on f95 are absolutely dog shit.

 

[lolsis]

Can you please add mega link as its very slow with the options youve uploaded on through tor.

Also is this the uncensored version and does it have any decent scenes with lolis?

 

[Tiur]

If you want to know spoilers about Jack, Mom, ect ask me on discord and I will tell them to you.

The problem with Jack and the mom are that both of them are quite literally acting exactly like NTR bulls, and the sister is acting like a normal oblivious NTR LI who lets others corrupt and steal her away, and the storyline of this whole update leaned hard in that direction.

Overall, as someone who does like girl-girl action between harem girls, this update was so unpleasant to play that I'm dropping my Substar.

Spoilers don't matter for AVNs in progress.

The game's going to be complete eventually, so what does it benefit to leave the game in such an unpleasant state that supporters are dropping support and telling others to avoid the game, just for the sake of a little mystery for a few months?

 

[Tiur]

The game took such a drastic hard turn in 0.3 that I now regret supporting it. If I could, I'd try to get a refund for my support to date due to this bait and switch. I guess that'll teach me not to support a game during the first several releases ever again.

Spoiler: My own rant about 0.3

As I said above, I do enjoy some girl girl action between harem girls... Once they're harem girls, and only if they don't leave the MC out of the loop. I don't consider harem girls playing with each other to be NTR or cheating, since it's not intended to cause jealousy. Just to give you an idea of where I stand on that, and to demonstrate that I'm not anti-lesbian at all.

With all that said... in this release we have:

• the mom literally calling the MC a beta and showing zero romantic or sexual interest in him - this makes her pretty obviously not an LI despite the original implication that she would be.
• the sister doesn't do anything to discourage the mom's behavior with her, and obliviously enables it - which is one of the ways LIs in NTR stories act when they're being stolen.
• the mom is actively thinking about fucking the sister, and wants to discourage the MC from fucking the sister, and she literally masturbates with the sister's panties pushed inside of her - since the mom is now clearly not an LI, this is her wanting to steal the sister from the MC.
• the mom seems to be planning to have the aunt and cousin visit to distract the MC and stop him from doing things with the sister (combined with the above point, that'd be so she can fuck her instead) - all four of the above points are clearly 100% intended to cause jealousy, which is a point-for-point textbook NTR plot.
• Mairu and Kururi (the twins) act dismissive, ignore the MC, and make out in public instead. They're not with the MC yet, so it's not technically NTR, but it's absolutely in the same ballpark - they're clearly far more interested in each other than in him.
• Jack literally tries to steal the sister right in front of the MC and Sumire, and regardless of the player's choice seems hell-bent on doing exactly that, and the sister seems to be ready to obliviously go along with it - this is clearly 100% intended to cause jealousy, which is textbook alpha-vs-beta NTR with Jack as the alpha.
• Celes, the sluttiest girl in the orphanage, acts dominant with the MC and he just takes it (e.g. she's fucking at least Nana without making HER 'earn it') - while this isn't strictly NTR, it's a shitty double standard that edges on femdom, and if she keeps fucking other non-harem girls while the MC is pursuing her, it does head in the direction of NTR.

So for a lot of people, even people who normally like lesbian content between harem girls, this release ruined:

• the mom (NTR bull behavior toward the sister)
• the sister (NTR LI behavior with the mom and Jack)
• Jack (NTR bull behavior toward the sister)
• Celes (doubled down on faithless slut behavior from last release)
• by association with Celes, Nana, and anyone else Celes is/was fucking that we don't know about yet
• Mairu and Kururi (more interested in each other than in the MC)
• the aunt even before we've met her (because she seems to be intended to facilitate the mom/sister NTR)
• the cousin (for the same reason as the aunt)

There was nothing positive or enjoyable about this release except the short bit with the sister in the theater, arguably the dressing room scene, and telling the asshole dude hitting on the sister that the MC was her boyfriend (which didn't seem to mean anything to her, since just minutes later she seems ready to let Jack steal her from the MC, demonstrating that her behavior with the mom is a pattern, and ruins her anyway). Everything else was girls shitting on the MC and setting up literal textbook NTR storylines.

I actively disliked Hiroko from the first two releases, but she and Sumire are the only two who come out of the mall and home segments of this release looking at all acceptable.

Summary:

• If you don't want to upset people and lose supporters:
  • You need to make it clear if you're going to have girls stealing other girls from the MC (which is absolutely what Jack and the mom are doing), so we can get the NTR tag added to the thread and put it and the game on ignore
  • You need to make it clear if there are girls who will fuck around on the MC with non-harem girls (which is what Celes is doing), or fuck girls instead of the MC when given a choice (which, extrapolated, is what Mairu and Kururi actually already did), and if you still want harem fans, you need to give them the choice to ignore those girls entirely from the very beginning. Alternately, you could make it clear that they are not LIs. If they're going to be unavoidable anyway like Celes and the sister clearly are, let us know so we can put the thread and game on ignore.
  • For any girls who are not LIs, don't show us scenes of them having sex or interacting sexually or romantically with each other or others. We're not interested.
• If there are girls who would rather be with someone else (regardless of gender) than with the MC, they are not harem girls. And non-harem girls are wasted space at best in harem games.
• Basically, what everything here boils down to is: BE HONEST about the type of game you're making, both with us and with yourself. Make the game you want to make, but don't bait harem fans with the first two releases and then make an entirely NTR-focused game from that point on like this release suggests you are going to do.

This is all the more frustrating because the game still *looks* great visually, and the girls look adorable visually. That just makes how they act even more disgusting, though, and the virginal nympho nun and the lolis aren't going to be able to save it when you seem to be dead set on ruining the family and all the other non-loli girls with NTR.

Edited to add a Postscript: If you planned to present the situations in 0.3 in the interest of resolving them or mitigating them in the next release, then it was just a bad idea. Don't present adversity and shit all over the MC in a release without any reprieve, because your supporters, the people who would otherwise be advertising and recommending your games to other people, get all the shit without any of the resolution, for months. Sure, maybe for example Jack and the mom could immediately get put in their places next update/the next day in-game, but that doesn't matter, because we now have to spend months thinking about the mom and Jack blatantly cucking the MC until that release. It'd have been better to postpone the release until there was some resolution or some positive outcome of SOMETHING for the MC before releasing it.

One more edit (sorry, but I keep remembering new things to be annoyed at): Even the lolis are pretty much wasted. There's no indication any of them are virgins except Kuri, and that ruins the point of lolis in AVNs. The draw of lolis is either seducing, romancing, or corrupting the innocent... And for example Novi and Wendy are nothing like innocent.

 

[JoeTheMc84]

Oh wow that's a lot.
First. You really can rant as much as you want. I'm not sensitive if it comes to things like that.
Second. I totaly see what you mean and I agree with some of it. Maybe there was a bit to much of lesbian stuff so far.
But I stay with the things I said on F95. Especially about the "high emotional relationship".
If you want to know spoilers about Jack, Mom, ect ask me on discord and I will tell them to you.

About corruption. If you think that most girl are already corrupted just because they have sex then... no. For me corruption is way more and something that will go over simple sex.
All I can say is that you don't have to be worried about the MC being a dildo. Keep in mind that this was only the second update for that game and that the MC will soon start doing his first real moves, to the girls.
And I know that you complaint about much more and if you want to talk about it feel free to write me on discord.

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Perhaps the line here: "For me corruption is way more and something that will go over simple sex." Sums up the issue.

This is *not* porn. There is no "simple sex" in a self-insert incest-harem Visual Novel. Sex acts are deeply emotional things. Allowing the player to name the MC and make choices for him makes what happens to him happen to us. We aren't reading a book or watching a movie about some other character. We aren't just seeing his life, he is our avatar, and we are being encouraged to feel things and to make the choices we would make in his shoes. Then we are being punished when we do get attached and invested by being forced to see lesbian sex and see our avatar acting like a cuck and a simp. Especially when these sex acts involve blatant betrayal and dismissiveness towards the main character. The Jack moment is made all the worse, for example, because the MC tells a *man* to leave his sister alone and can claim to be her boyfriend to protect her, but then sees Jack flirting with her and just does nothing. Worse in fact, he is even able to encourage his sister to give in to Jack's cucking of him.

You have this idea of "high emotional relationships" and "low emotional relationships," but this is a false ideal. *All* sex is high emotional for most people in the world. Women *literally* produce a hormone when they have sex that men don't. It is a bonding hormone and makes them feel something for the man or woman they have sex with. And it doesn't feel like anyone has a high emotional relationship with the MC right now. Especially when someone who should have one of the highest emotional relationships, the mother, is the one who betrayed him the most in this update. Most women aren't bisexual, let alone lesbians. Lesbians, gays, and bisexuals account for 2% of the global population, on the high end. And contrary to porn and popular media, most women will *never* experiment with bisexual acts because for nearly all women especially, but even most men, sex of any kind is highly emotional and connective, it's important.

There are outliers, always, hence why I was saying that one or two girls might be okay because of the size of the cast in this story. Fans of lesbian and bisexual stuff can have that but now it seems that every girl we have met except for maybe three are lesbians or bisexual already and already fucking. Which again begs the question, why is the MC even there? Celes has made it clear she is only interested in a cock because she is tired of just having girls, but she isn't interested enough in him to actually let him have sex with her (or even just a blow job) and she'll keep having sex with others. She is teasing the MC like a virgin might (sex is important, you must earn it), while also being a slut (sex doesn't matter so I'll fuck every girl here if I can). So, she is dead to most harem fans now. The mother has fully insulted and betrayed her son even calling in help to keep him from the sister so she can claim her. The MC will again, have to work to earn what is being freely given and why waste time on her? Jack is so not interested in the MC that she is actively trying to steel his sister too, again, he'll have to overcome her lesbian nature to maybe "earn" a blow job one day, but she'll happily bang the sister who she actually likes. The twins (again who were two of my favorite character until this moment) are done too, they not only are dismissive of the MC but in order for us to get our first interaction with them we have to give up a lewd moment with another girl (in the first release going right or left) and now they are making out, in public, as soon as his back is turned. Which again, could have been an awesome character moment of them talking about MC and how much they think he is a good guy, how happy they are to have him as the new director, and the shy sister talking about liking him but being too shy to say anything.

Girls may tease each other and may even touch each other in ways men wouldn't. Which was what I thought you meant by "play together" before. Simple teasing and light touching. Like in the changing room, a young girl grabbing an older girl's boobs to compare them is not too far of an act of play or teasing. For example, when the mom just grabbed the daughter's breasts in the shower, it could have been a funny tease moment. But with what we see in this update; no, the mother wants the daughter and doesn't care at all about her son sexual (again even calling in the aunt and cousin to block him from getting the sister).

Imagine it this way: revers things. If this *was* a female MC game where she gets a job and goes to work at a school for boys, would you make the boys give each other blow jobs just because they are sexual experimenting or because you found it hot? Would they be taking it up the butt while waiting for the female MC to get to them? I doubt it because you would know that most people don't enjoy guy-on-guy porn, so you would say "Let's not show all that." Even though "realistically" in male schools and orphanages gay sex does happen at higher rates than in other places. You would know it is not worth it to be "realistic" in that moment because no one wants that kind of "realism." We aren;t here for realism at all. Here you have done the opposite. You have done the *unrealistic* things of making every girl bisexual at least and setting up the mother as an antagonist to her own son whom she is supposed to be in a high emotional relationship with.

In gangbang porn the guys aren't "entertaining" or "playing" with each other while they wait their turn with the girl. So, why does it seem as if girl have to "play" with each other while they wait? Most women wouldn't be tempted at all (the same way most men wouldn't be tempted), they might do something if the man asked them to, but most women wouldn't even consider just doing it on their own.

The game took such a drastic hard turn in 0.3 that I now regret supporting it. If I could, I'd try to get a refund for my support to date due to this bait and switch. I guess that'll teach me not to support a game during the first several releases ever again.

Spoiler: My own rant about 0.3

As I said above, I do enjoy some girl girl action between harem girls... Once they're harem girls, and only if they don't leave the MC out of the loop. I don't consider harem girls playing with each other to be NTR or cheating, since it's not intended to cause jealousy. Just to give you an idea of where I stand on that, and to demonstrate that I'm not anti-lesbian at all.

With all that said... in this release we have:

• the mom literally calling the MC a beta and showing zero romantic or sexual interest in him - this makes her pretty obviously not an LI despite the original implication that she would be.
• the sister doesn't do anything to discourage the mom's behavior with her, and obliviously enables it - which is one of the ways LIs in NTR stories act when they're being stolen.
• the mom is actively thinking about fucking the sister, and wants to discourage the MC from fucking the sister, and she literally masturbates with the sister's panties pushed inside of her - since the mom is now clearly not an LI, this is her wanting to steal the sister from the MC.
• the mom seems to be planning to have the aunt and cousin visit to distract the MC and stop him from doing things with the sister (combined with the above point, that'd be so she can fuck her instead) - all four of the above points are clearly 100% intended to cause jealousy, which is a point-for-point textbook NTR plot.
• Mairu and Kururi (the twins) act dismissive, ignore the MC, and make out in public instead. They're not with the MC yet, so it's not technically NTR, but it's absolutely in the same ballpark - they're clearly far more interested in each other than in him.
• Jack literally tries to steal the sister right in front of the MC and Sumire, and regardless of the player's choice seems hell-bent on doing exactly that, and the sister seems to be ready to obliviously go along with it - this is clearly 100% intended to cause jealousy, which is textbook alpha-vs-beta NTR with Jack as the alpha.
• Celes, the sluttiest girl in the orphanage, acts dominant with the MC and he just takes it (e.g. she's fucking at least Nana without making HER 'earn it') - while this isn't strictly NTR, it's a shitty double standard that edges on femdom, and if she keeps fucking other non-harem girls while the MC is pursuing her, it does head in the direction of NTR.

So for a lot of people, even people who normally like lesbian content between harem girls, this release ruined:

• the mom (NTR bull behavior toward the sister)
• the sister (NTR LI behavior with the mom and the tomboy)
• Jack (NTR bull behavior toward the sister)
• Celes (doubled down on faithless slut behavior from last release)
• by association with Celes, Nana, and anyone else Celes is/was fucking that we don't know about yet
• Mairu and Kururi (more interested in each other than in the MC)
• the aunt even before we've met her (because she seems to be intended to facilitate the mom/sister NTR)
• the cousin (for the same reason as the aunt)

There was nothing positive or enjoyable about this release except the short bit with the sister in the theater, arguably the dressing room scene, and telling the asshole dude hitting on the sister that the MC was her boyfriend (which didn't seem to mean anything to her, since just minutes later she seems ready to let Jack steal her from the MC, demonstrating that her behavior with the mom is a pattern, and ruins her anyway). Everything else was girls shitting on the MC and setting up literal textbook NTR storylines.

I actively disliked Hiroko from the first two releases, but she and Sumire are the only two who come out of the mall and home segments of this release looking at all acceptable.

Summary:

• If you don't want to upset people and lose supporters:
  • You need to make it clear if you're going to have girls stealing other girls from the MC (which is absolutely what Jack and the mom are doing), so we can get the NTR tag added to the thread and put it and the game on ignore
  • You need to make it clear if there are girls who will fuck around on the MC with non-harem girls (which is what Celes is doing), or fuck girls instead of the MC when given a choice (which, extrapolated, is what Mairu and Kururi actually already did), and if you still want harem fans, you need to give them the choice to ignore those girls entirely from the very beginning. Alternately, you could make it clear that they are not LIs. If they're going to be unavoidable anyway like Celes and the sister clearly are, let us know so we can put the thread and game on ignore.
  • For any girls who are not LIs, don't show us scenes of them having sex or interacting sexually or romantically with each other or others. We're not interested.
• If there are girls who would rather be with someone else (regardless of gender) than with the MC, they are not harem girls. And non-harem girls are wasted space at best in harem games.
• Basically, what everything here boils down to is: BE HONEST about the type of game you're making, both with us and with yourself. Make the game you want to make, but don't bait harem fans with the first two releases and then make an entirely NTR-focused game from that point on like this release suggests you are going to do.

This is all the more frustrating because the game still *looks* great visually, and the girls look adorable visually. That just makes how they act even more disgusting, though, and the virginal nympho nun and the lolis aren't going to be able to save it when you seem to be dead set on ruining the family and all the other non-loli girls with NTR.

Edited to add a Postscript: If you planned to present the situations in 0.3 in the interest of resolving them or mitigating them in the next release, then it was just a bad idea. Don't present adversity and shit all over the MC in a release without any reprieve, because your supporters, the people who would otherwise be advertising and recommending your games to other people, get all the shit without any of the resolution, for months. Sure, maybe for example Jack and the mom could immediately get put in their places next update/the next day in-game, but that doesn't matter, because we now have to spend months thinking about the mom and Jack blatantly cucking the MC. It'd have been better to postpone the release until there was some resolution or some positive outcome of SOMETHING for the MC before releasing it.

Well said. We will sit with these betrayals and antagonistic set ups for months now. Turning something that we looked forward to into something we should be worried about.

Edit: And a note about the mother. It would also be different if she wanted to invite the aunt over to distract the *daughter* so that the mother could get the MC first. That would actually be funny and an interesting development. But no, she is just another lesbian betraying the MC and getting help to do it. MC is second fiddle, if that. A dildo with a pulse who could disappear from the game, and no one would really care, least of all his mother who could then have the sister all to herself.

 

[kwinterhawk]

Honestly, I'm liking the game as it is so far. I'm not really seeing any betrayals or NTR situations so far. The MC is the one walking into an area full of already existing relationships, and no real interests have really blossomed yet. Jack being aggressively interested in May doesn't strike me as odd, it can easily go towards threesome situations instead of the immediate cries of NTR, so I'm holding my opinion until it develops more. The situation regarding the mom being overly sexual with the daughter is odd, but I just look at it as a Mom that's open to sexuality, and once she thinks they're actually fucking each other starts to think maybe it's all gone too far. I'm still going to keep playing the game and seeing how the story goes so far, and it has my full approval so far. Thumbs up to you, Marche95.

 

[JoeTheMc84]

Honestly, I'm liking the game as it is so far. I'm not really seeing any betrayals or NTR situations so far. The MC is the one walking into an area full of already existing relationships, and no real interests have really blossomed yet. Jack being aggressively interested in May doesn't strike me as odd, it can easily go towards threesome situations instead of the immediate cries of NTR, so I'm holding my opinion until it develops more. The situation regarding the mom being overly sexual with the daughter is odd, but I just look at it as a Mom that's open to sexuality, and once she thinks they're actually fucking each other starts to think maybe it's all gone too far. I'm still going to keep playing the game and seeing how the story goes so far, and it has my full approval so far. Thumbs up to you, Marche95.

Interestingly, the things you noticed, while they don't bother you, kind of prove the point.

When this was first released it wasn't sold as the MC going into a place full of "already existing relationships." It was sold as the MC being selected to go into a place with young girls where he would make relationships. Quickly in the first release we saw that two girls did have something already, again, everyone who has since complained has agreed that was alright, this many girls, a few being together already is understandable and we can work with it. But in the last two releases it has been hammered home that seemingly all the girls are in, "already existing relationships." the game has gone out of its way to make it clear that the MC is a needless afterthought to these girls at best right now.

And you even point out the issue with Jack. She has *zero* interest in the MC, so at best we will use the little sister as a lure to get Jack to let us join *them.* We will be the third wheel sacrificing our sister for the scraps off some lesbian who doesn't even care and respect us enough to not flirt with our sister right in front of us. Would you enjoy that if Jack were a guy? Would the prospect of a three-way appeal to you enough to ignore the clear implications of future NTR then? Would you be willing to toss aside the sister for that content, a throw away lesbian scene? The MC can basically use his sister to get the chance to have a lesbian let him in the room while she has fun with our sister and maybe he can jerk off while watching the first time. Then maybe he can join in after a few updates later when Jack and the sister bang the second time. I hate NTR games, and I hate them because I have been blindsided by them before, and the scene with Jack and the stuff with the mom are classic NTR set ups if they were guys and not girls. It's so clearly shown by the MC standing up to the guy who does the same thing to his sister that Jack did. Flirting with her in front of him.

And the mom clearly doesn't think it's gone too far for her to masturbate with the sister's panties. So again, it seems odd that she is so concerned that the MC and sister are banging while at the same time wanting nothing more than to bang the sister herself and get help to block the MC. It's like the scene with Celes. It sends mixed signals. Mom is saying, "Sex is such a big deal I need to block my son and daughter from doing stuff, but it's so not a big deal that *I* plan to keep doing stuff with my daughter." Which is it?

I'm certainly not telling you stop playing the game. In fact, unless the developer makes a comment that pushes me away, I'll still probably play the next release at least in the hopes of being proven wrong. I *honestly* hope that this has just all been a miscalculation and a miscommunication about the way the game is going. That the game can correct course and clear up these issues. But even when pointing out the events yourself, while you can say you aren't bothered by them, you prove the point. Even someone who isn't bothered by this stuff lays out the problems clearly. It means they are real and evident.

 

[Myuhinny]

I had no problem with the update and I don't see any of the girls having sex with each other as NTR. Hell I even let May make her own decision on deciding if she wanted to give that girl her number or not. Now that douche on the other hand I put stop to that right then and there.

 

[Therply]

I'm not an NTR fan in any way, and I personally really liked the direction of this update -- none of the content I've seen feels like NTR to me. I'm not currently an SS supporter (due to financial reasons), but if anything this update nudged me in the direction of becoming a supporter. The only criticism I can come up with is that I wish the update was longer, but I'm probably going to work around that by skipping the next update and playing the next 2 updates at once -- desiring ultra-long updates is a personal hang-up of mine and I don't think it's the dev's fault. VN preferences are very subjective; it's impossible to make everyone happy. It sounds like a nontrivial number of people didn't like the direction this VN is going, and that's fine -- but I hope Marche95 knows there are also a nontrivial number of fans, like me, who thought the direction is great and are looking forward to seeing more.

 

[Tiur]

Think of it this way:

If the game had the MC and May living with their dad instead of their mom, and the exact same things happened, would you still be okay with him making out with May while they're both naked or near-naked, calling the MC a beta, and then masturbating with May's panties afterwards and calling his sister and niece to come cockblock the MC so he (the dad) can fuck May behind the MC's back?

If the game had Jack as a dude, would you still be okay with him hitting on May in front of the MC and setting up a situation where he can fuck her while the MC is distracted? Given that the MC literally just told off another guy for trying to do the same thing, he's just being a pussy in Jack's presence.

That they have tits doesn't make it suddenly not NTR.

 

[Tiur]

The "Beta" was just a joke.

Since she's already lusting after May, shows no interest in the MC, and she knows how May feels about the MC, it feels very mean-spirited rather than like a joke.

Calling his sister and niece to come cockblock him? I don't know where this comes from but this isn't something that will happen or was planned from the mom.

This assumption is due to the timing of her conversation with her sister, given what she does with May's panties in the same scene.

Jack will try to hit on May, yes.

This ruins Jack as an LI for almost every harem fan I know of, and makes her an antagonist. Is she intended to be an LI? Given that you've said every woman will be in a sexual relationship with the MC by the end, we can only assume she is... So harem fans won't want anything to do with her. No one likes someone who's trying to steal the MC's girl.

By all respect but half of the complaints are things that are in your imagination. Feel free to stop your support and wait for more updates to see where this game goes to. And again. Feel free to write me on discord.

Why keep it in Discord, though? You could use spoiler tags here, and not have to retype it several times. If it's as good a justification for how 0.3 went as you think it is, that would shut up most of the people who have been agreeing with my and Joe's posts. Since you don't allow anyone to post in your own Discord, people have to use DMs, which makes it really hard to find information like this out. This is why people talk here instead.

 

[knv]

That they have tits doesn't make it suddenly not NTR

Sure, but it's moreso the fact that it's an LI that makes it not NTR to me. I see it more as an extension of sharing. I'm all for the option of sharing being an opt-in, but the intent of the scene isn't to demean me as the PC self-insert

 

[cshare2222]

My first comment on this site.
Great game so far Marche95.
I'm glad you aren't wasting too much time on folks that get a bit butt hurt when a game isn't EXACTLY to their niche personal preferences.
At the end of the day, it's your story and you should tell it however you like.
Best of luck dude.
P.S. Curious what game Marche is playing when May and Mom first return home? Thanks

 

[Tiur]

Sure, but it's moreso the fact that it's an LI that makes it not NTR to me. I see it more as an extension of sharing. I'm all for the option of sharing being an opt-in, but the intent of the scene isn't to demean me as the PC self-insert

Except they're definitely not LIs currently. Neither appears to show any interest in the MC. That makes it hard to read the mom's comment as anything but demeaning, and Jack seems to be a gold-star lesbian who is entirely uninterested in men. So much so that, if the MC met her on Day 1 instead of the twins, she doesn't even care when he sees her naked. He's just a non-entity to her.

 

[JoeTheMc84]

Sure, but it's moreso the fact that it's an LI that makes it not NTR to me. I see it more as an extension of sharing. I'm all for the option of sharing being an opt-in, but the intent of the scene isn't to demean me as the PC self-insert

Sharing may be okay for some, I'm not a fan of it at all, but it is what it is. But for it to be sharing both the MC and the other girls need to be down for it. Jack has zero interest in MC as it stands and is actively trying to steal May. If you didn't know, because the dev said it, that Jack would be a love interest, then would you think it would lead to sharing or an attempt at stealing? It doesn't come across like future sharing unless you know Jack will eventually have sex with the MC. And since the dev has said May won't do anything with anyone else then it makes it even more odd. Will Jack just settle for the MC after May shuts her down? That adds to the issue for me that has come up in this update of the MC feeling like an afterthought for so many of the characters, he just happens to be the dick in the room. Jack did say they looked alike, so is the MC her second choice because May isn't into her?

And again, the mom hasn't done nearly enough with the MC as she has May to make it seems like she wants anything with him at all. She seems upset that the MC and May might be doing stuff together, if she wants to share and is a love interest it is an odd way to set it up. Edit: Again, she seems upset that the Mc and May are doing things but she wants to do stuff with May while also insulting her son and not thinking about him... it's odd.

I will take the dev at his word that this will be solved in the next update, but it speaks to the issue with the episodic nature of AVNs. We only have this moment. We can speculate about the future but only one person knows what will happen and that is the developer. You see it as setting up sharing (which doesn't solve all the problems but at least isn't as bad I suppose) and for me it looks like classic NTR or someone else coming in and stealing the MC's sister.

Edit: PS the mom and Jack are also only two issues here as well. The MC feeling like an afterthought. Celes making the MC earn what she happily gives away to others. The twin's making out in public (despite one being so shy she can't even really talk to the MC which could have set up an awesome moment of overhearing her say she would like him) behind the MC's back. Not to mention how some of what happened in this update frames some events from earlier content.

 

[Tiur]

Sharing may be okay for some, I'm not a fan of it at all, but it is what it is. But for it to be sharing both the MC and the other girls need to be down for it.

Exactly. In-harem sharing is fine (for me, at least), but it requires them to be in the harem.

 

[knv]

Except they're definitely not LIs currently. Neither appears to show any interest in the MC. That makes it hard to read the mom's comment as anything but demeaning, and Jack seems to be a gold-star lesbian who is entirely uninterested in men. So much so that, if the MC met her on Day 1 instead of the twins, she doesn't even care when he sees her naked. He's just a non-entity to her.

Agree to disagree on this point then, I don't see "actively fucking" as a requirement for an LI. For Jack maybe, but you have the option to say no, so there's no issue there.

 

[JoeTheMc84]

My first comment on this site.
Great game so far Marche95.
I'm glad you aren't wasting too much time on folks that get a bit butt hurt when a game isn't EXACTLY to their niche personal preferences.
At the end of the day, it's your story and you should tell it however you like.
Best of luck dude.
P.S. Curious what game Marche is playing when May and Mom first return home? Thanks

Congratulations on your first post. It's unfortunate you used to insult people, but that's okay, this is the internet. I get it. Edit: This line was meant in jest, no harm meant.

It is unfortunate that was your takeaway from people's complaints and concerns. The biggest complaint is what the game set up and it seems like it delivered. Not that things aren't happening exactly how we want them too. If I was promised an omelet and the waiter brought me a bowl of raw eggs, I'd be justified in my confusion and questioning what is going on. The first release set up an expectation of a classic incest-harem, since then it has seemed more like it leaves the MC aside and focuses on girls who not only don't need him around but, in many ways, don't even want around... or so it comes across to some of us who don't have a boyhood fascination with lesbians.

The dev can make whatever game he wants, I just like it when devs are clear about what game they are making so I can know if it is for me or not. It isn't that hard. And as I've tried to say, I know I'm making assumptions. I will be very happy to have clarity given and I'll even try the next update and I hope it clears stuff up if nothing is cleared up before then.

 

[Tiur]

I'm checking out of this thread and putting it on ignore.

I've gotten the spoiler context from Marche, but out of respect for him as a game dev, I won't post it here since he's requested that.

I will say that we are in fact wrong about the aunt and cousin, though I contend that it was a valid assumption at the time. I won't say anything else about them.

I will also say that anyone who doesn't like how 0.3 went with Jack or the mom will likely not enjoy where their stories are going, and should also check out and put the game on ignore.