discussion do you think sharing and NTR are the same?

[hoochimama]

Simple working definitions:

In a netorare (NTR) story the main character's love interest will screw around against the MC's will who'll hate it.
In a netorase (NTS) story the main character's love interest will screw around and the MC will like it or not mind it.
In a netori (NTI) story the main character will screw someone's love interest against that someone's will who'll hate it.

If the MC willingly shares the LI that falls under NTS, but that doesn't mean NTS is limited to just sharing. If the MC's LI cheats and the MC actually likes it or doesn't mind it, that's still an NTS story. If the MC secretly arranges for others to gangrape his wife for his own voyeuristic delight that's still an NTS story.

Similarly NTR stories aren't limited to just cheating NTR, you can also have rape NTR, mistaken identity NTR etc.

Likewise you can have cheating NTI but also rape NTI etc.

 

[JoeTheMc84]

Do you think that stealing food is the same as someone inviting you dinner?

A better analogy would be this: NTR - Someone breaks into your house and jacks off on your food. Sharing - you invite someone into your house to jack off on your food. And that's why a lot of people don't care about any of the "technicalities." Either way, your food is getting another man's cum on it. And if you eat it, then you are in the same place: you ate food that some other guy's cum is all over.

In real life, this is why if you get cheated on and dump the bitch (i.e., you don't "eat the food" in this analogy) then it sucks but you're not a cuckold. You got cucked, but you are not a cuckold. But if you stick with her or worse, enjoy it (that's eating the cum-covered food), then you are at least a cuck, if not a closeted homosexual who needs the involvement of another man to get sexual gratification, with the woman being just a prop for that.

I've answered before, but I'll restate it. They, sharing and NTR, are technically different. In the same way that trap (and to some degree futa) and gay porn are different. Yeah, each is its own fetish, and they display differently, and you can enjoy one and not the others. But the form, function, and underlying parts are all the same. If someone doesn't like gay porn, they aren't going to care that in one the guy getting fucked by their MC is wearing a 'cute dress' and is skinny or if the guy is a hairy beast of a man. They don't like when their MC fucks someone who has a dick.

Or male domination and female domination. It's the same fetish just from a different direction. So, someone who doesn't like domination because of the force and power imbalance or whatever reason, they won't care what direction it is coming from and who is dominating who. So, while they are different, in that you can like one and not the other, they are also the same. For people who like one and not the other, that's fine, the differences matter. In the same way that a guy might say, "I'm more attracted to black girls, but not really into Asians." So he only watches ebony porn, or avoids a game where every chick is Asian, but you'd never say that "black porn games" and "Asian porn games" are different because the 'difference' is superficial and still part of the overall super group of normal porn.

You see this as well in the discussions about bestiality, furries, and monsters, and where the line is. Sometimes it's easy: dog bangs a chick, it's bestiality, but what about a minotaur, an ape? Also, if the AVN this hypothetical bestiality is in isn't a female MC game or the dog isn't the MC, then is the chick fucking a dog NTR or sharing? Or something else? In a game, if it is another guy fucking your girl it is NTR or sharing, but if it is a dog, what is it? Because I've seen NTR fans lose their shit when a girl in the game fucked an animal, but fundamentally, isn't it "the same," because the girl is getting fucked by not the MC?

Obviously, I'm aware of why bestiality and NTR/NTS are different, and much more different than the differences between NTR and NTS, but the point I am making is one of degrees of differences. As a final example, consider a black MC game and a white MC game. If everything else about the games was the same and the only difference was the MC's melanin levels, that one difference, to a person who cares about it makes all the difference in their enjoyment and engagement with the whole thing. I would say, "Who cares if the MC is white or black, everything else is the same?" The problem in practice is, of course, that most black MC games use a black MC because they are invoking the BBC fetish or race play, but think of a game like Being Super (I haven't played in a long time so this might be out of date information) where you can pick the MC's color between black and white. Is there a real, substantive difference between a black MC and a white MC other than visual preference? If one game has a black MC modeled after Shaquille O'Neal and another game had an MC modeled off Kevin Hart, that would be a more substantive difference than if two identical models were used in two games and the only difference was the skin material used in the Daz renders, but for some people, that single difference makes all the difference.

Also, consider how during all of this talk (the several pages of the discussion), the woman's willingness is rarely mentioned, which goes to my earlier point that in both of these fetishes the female involved is often just a prop. Because if she is willing, then it undercuts the alleged emotions and control involved. You aren't sharing her, nor is she being stolen, because she isn't 'yours' really, she is 'ours.' And if she is unwilling, then the MC is forcing her to be raped if it is NTS, and the real fetish is rape (even if blackmail or some 'less violent' method is employed) and powerlessness and not the actual sex act. So, willing vs unwilling NTR, or willing vs unwilling NTS, from the female perspective are also 'different,' but is it a substantive enough difference that we really need to care that much and have different tags and arguments about it? Or, can we acknowledge that while, yeah technically they are different, they are the same?

Therefore, to finish out and fully bring it back to the topic of NTR and NTS and if they are 'the same' or not, I'll finish with what I started with. Either way, particularly when it is shown on screen and the MC stays with the chick, then they are the same because you still watched your girl get fucked by another dude and you still get sloppy seconds. Another guy came in your food, and you ate it. So for the person who enjoys eating cum-filled food, asking for it or having it forced on you can make all the difference. But in reality and practice, they are the same to most people.

EDIT: TL;DR - How granular do we need to be? At what point do we say, "In the broader discussions and goal of talking about AVNs and fetishes, these are the same despite the minor difference that some have with them," because we can break almost any fetishes down to such a level that it becomes impossible to have real discussions about them if we aren't willing to be honest about when fetishes are fundamentally the same.

 

[chummy_tomato]

A better analogy would be this: NTR - Someone breaks into your house and jacks off on your food. Sharing - you invite someone into your house to jack off on your food. And that's why a lot of people don't care about any of the "technicalities." Either way, your food is getting another man's cum on it. And if you eat it, then you are in the same place: you ate food that some other guy's cum is all over.

In real life, this is why if you get cheated on and dump the bitch (i.e., you don't "eat the food" in this analogy) then it sucks but you're not a cuckold. You got cucked, but you are not a cuckold. But if you stick with her or worse, enjoy it (that's eating the cum-covered food), then you are at least a cuck, if not a closeted homosexual who needs the involvement of another man to get sexual gratification, with the woman being just a prop for that.

I've answered before, but I'll restate it. They, sharing and NTR, are technically different. In the same way that trap (and to some degree futa) and gay porn are different. Yeah, each is its own fetish, and they display differently, and you can enjoy one and not the others. But the form, function, and underlying parts are all the same. If someone doesn't like gay porn, they aren't going to care that in one the guy getting fucked by their MC is wearing a 'cute dress' and is skinny or if the guy is a hairy beast of a man. They don't like when their MC fucks someone who has a dick.

Or male domination and female domination. It's the same fetish just from a different direction. So, someone who doesn't like domination because of the force and power imbalance or whatever reason, they won't care what direction it is coming from and who is dominating who. So, while they are different, in that you can like one and not the other, they are also the same. For people who like one and not the other, that's fine, the differences matter. In the same way that a guy might say, "I'm more attracted to black girls, but not really into Asians." So he only watches ebony porn, or avoids a game where every chick is Asian, but you'd never say that "black porn games" and "Asian porn games" are different because the 'difference' is superficial and still part of the overall super group of normal porn.

You see this as well in the discussions about bestiality, furries, and monsters, and where the line is. Sometimes it's easy: dog bangs a chick, it's bestiality, but what about a minotaur, an ape? Also, if the AVN this hypothetical bestiality is in isn't a female MC game or the dog isn't the MC, then is the chick fucking a dog NTR or sharing? Or something else? In a game, if it is another guy fucking your girl it is NTR or sharing, but if it is a dog, what is it? Because I've seen NTR fans lose their shit when a girl in the game fucked an animal, but fundamentally, isn't it "the same," because the girl is getting fucked by not the MC?

Obviously, I'm aware of why bestiality and NTR/NTS are different, and much more different than the differences between NTR and NTS, but the point I am making is one of degrees of differences. As a final example, consider a black MC game and a white MC game. If everything else about the games was the same and the only difference was the MC's melanin levels, that one difference, to a person who cares about it makes all the difference in their enjoyment and engagement with the whole thing. I would say, "Who cares if the MC is white or black, everything else is the same?" The problem in practice is, of course, that most black MC games use a black MC because they are invoking the BBC fetish or race play, but think of a game like Being Super (I haven't played in a long time so this might be out of date information) where you can pick the MC's color between black and white. Is there a real, substantive difference between a black MC and a white MC other than visual preference? If one game has a black MC modeled after Shaquille O'Neal and another game had an MC modeled off Kevin Hart, that would be a more substantive difference than if two identical models were used in two games and the only difference was the skin material used in the Daz renders, but for some people, that single difference makes all the difference.

Also, consider how during all of this talk (the several pages of the discussion), the woman's willingness is rarely mentioned, which goes to my earlier point that in both of these fetishes the female involved is often just a prop. Because if she is willing, then it undercuts the alleged emotions and control involved. You aren't sharing her, nor is she being stolen, because she isn't 'yours' really, she is 'ours.' And if she is unwilling, then the MC is forcing her to be raped if it is NTS, and the real fetish is rape (even if blackmail or some 'less violent' method is employed) and powerlessness and not the actual sex act. So, willing vs unwilling NTR, or willing vs unwilling NTS, from the female perspective are also 'different,' but is it a substantive enough difference that we really need to care that much and have different tags and arguments about it? Or, can we acknowledge that while, yeah technically they are different, they are the same?

Therefore, to finish out and fully bring it back to the topic of NTR and NTS and if they are 'the same' or not, I'll finish with what I started with. Either way, particularly when it is shown on screen and the MC stays with the chick, then they are the same because you still watched your girl get fucked by another dude and you still get sloppy seconds. Another guy came in your food, and you ate it. So for the person who enjoys eating cum-filled food, asking for it or having it forced on you can make all the difference. But in reality and practice, they are the same to most people.

EDIT: TL;DR - How granular do we need to be? At what point do we say, "In the broader discussions and goal of talking about AVNs and fetishes, these are the same despite the minor difference that some have with them," because we can break almost any fetishes down to such a level that it becomes impossible to have real discussions about them if we aren't willing to be honest about when fetishes are fundamentally the same.

tl;dr

 

[JoeTheMc84]

tl;dr

Literally put a TL;DR at the bottom...

 

[hoochimama]

You got cucked, but you are not a cuckold.

Utter nonsense. To be cuckolded is the same as to be made a cuckold of, to be a cuckold. She cuckolded you, she made a cuckold of you. That's how the word is used whether it's in english, french etc.
The meaning of words isn't determined by someone's preference in pornography. A cuckold is someone whose partner has a sexual relationship with someone else, that's all, that's the definition.

Since cuckold or cuck is also used as a pejorative some porn fans then want to change the meaning of the word so they don't feel slandered, to protect their ridiculous egos, want to claim that their own particular brand of cuckold porn and personal kink isn't worthy of the pejorative, it's the other ones who are worthy of being slandered, who are cuckolds. So some guys whose kink is willingly sharing their partner but also getting some action for themselves (whether tag teaming their own partner or screwing others) claim they're not cuckolds, that it's the ones who don't also get some action out of it who are cuckolds. Meanwhile some of the guys who willingly share but don't get any action out of it, who just watch or are told about it or do cleanups will claim they're not cuckolds because they're consenting to it, that it's the guys who didn't consent to it who are cuckolds. And yet again some of those who were cucked against their will will claim that they're not cuckolds because they didn't consent to it, that it's the ones who willingly wanted to get cucked who are cuckolds. Ridiculous really, and it's why cuckold is a terrible term to use as a porn category.

EDIT: TL;DR - How granular do we need to be? At what point do we say, "In the broader discussions and goal of talking about AVNs and fetishes, these are the same despite the minor difference that some have with them," because we can break almost any fetishes down to such a level that it becomes impossible to have real discussions about them if we aren't willing to be honest about when fetishes are fundamentally the same.

Need to be as granular as those who care to make and discuss the distinction want it to be. If they care to make the distinction it matters to them. Here the level of granularity or specificity of the discussion goes down to NTR (netorare) vs Sharing (should've been NTR vs NTS (netorase) as it's a clearer equivalent). Most NTS fans hate NTR and most NTR fans hate NTS, it's a perfectly valid distinction. If the question was selfish cheating NTR vs selfless cheating NTR that would be the level of granularity of that discussion. As long as there are people who care about the distinction, as long as one turns them on while the other one doesn't then it's a valid distinction, a valid level of granularity/valid category or whatever one would call it.

To a religious nut a playboy magazine and a video of a bikini chick farting on cake might be the same thing, just porn, obscene. So what? If someone doesn't care to make a distinction between maledom and femdom how is it pertinent, how is it relevant for those who care about their differences and care to discuss them? Do you think people don't realize both NTR and NTS stories have the similarity of the MC's LI screwing someone else and thus could be lumped together as "porn stories where MC's partner screws around" and perceived as such by those who don't care for either? Or that NTR, NTS and NTI all have stories where someone screws around on their partner and thus could similarly be lumped together above that and perceived as the same thing by those who don't care for any of it?

 

[JoeTheMc84]

Utter nonsense. To be cuckolded is the same as to be made a cuckold of, to be a cuckold. She cuckolded you, she made a cuckold of you. That's how the word is used whether it's in english, french etc.
The meaning of words isn't determined by someone's preference in pornography. A cuckold is someone whose partner has a sexual relationship with someone else, that's all, that's the definition.

Since cuckold or cuck is also used as a pejorative some porn fans then want to change the meaning of the word so they don't feel slandered, to protect their ridiculous egos, want to claim that their own particular brand of cuckold porn and personal kink isn't worthy of the pejorative, it's the other ones who are worthy of being slandered, who are cuckolds. So some guys whose kink is willingly sharing their partner but also getting some action for themselves (whether tag teaming their own partner or screwing others) claim they're not cuckolds, that it's the ones who don't also get some action out of it who are cuckolds. Meanwhile some of the guys who willingly share but don't get any action out of it, who just watch or are told or do cleanups will claim they're not cuckolds because they're consenting to it, that it's the guys who didn't consent to it who are cuckolds. And yet again some of those who were cucked against their will will claim that they're not cuckolds because they didn't consent to it, it's not their kink, that it's the ones who willingly wanted to get cucked who are cuckolds. Ridiculous really.

I think you miss understand me. Primarily, I was intending to draw a distinction between real life and AVNs in the hopes of heading off any use of IRL vs AVN arguments. NTR/NTS lovers always love to conflate IRL and AVNs. Saying things like, "If you watch porn that's getting cucked," or, "I bet a girl cheated on you and that's why you hate NTR," or, "It's just pixels, why do you take it so serious," and so on. They always try, in conflicting ways in fact, to draw some parallel to IRL events or standards in order to uphold their love of being cucks. And so, in one way I was just trying to undercut that as an option in any responses. Also, the word cuck has more meaning that the word cuckold. In the modern vernacular it has gained more meanings, and so I was using the meanings my opponents use, again, to undercut their responses that rely on these altered definitions. My whole argument was that both NTR and NTS are cuckoldry content, that they are the same for that reason. Sorry if you were off put by my attempt to undercut and redirect possible arguments that might be leveled against my position via my delineation between someone who is unwillingly cucked IRL and acts against it and someone who willingly enjoys being a cuck in IRL or AVNs just being a cuck if not a homosexual. Again, sorry if that distracted you such that, even though we seem to largely agree, you couldn't get past it.

 

[hoochimama]

Also, if the AVN this hypothetical bestiality is in isn't a female MC game or the dog isn't the MC, then is the chick fucking a dog NTR or sharing? Or something else? In a game, if it is another guy fucking your girl it is NTR or sharing, but if it is a dog, what is it? Because I've seen NTR fans lose their shit when a girl in the game fucked an animal, but fundamentally, isn't it "the same," because the girl is getting fucked by not the MC?

Man, woman, dog, horse, ogre, robot, non-sentient amorphous alien blob, it doesn't matter. Neither does how the fan/player/reader feels about it matter to whether it is categorized as an NTR story or an NTS story. Only how the MC feels about it matters for that. Again:

In a netorare (NTR) story the main character's love interest will screw around against the MC's will who'll hate it.
In a netorase (NTS) story the main character's love interest will screw around and the MC will like it or not mind it.
In a netori (NTI) story the main character will screw someone's love interest against that someone's will who'll hate it.

If the MC's girl gets fucked by a dog against the MC's will who'll hate it it's an NTR story.
If the MC's girl gets fucked by a dog and the MC likes it or doesn't mind it it's an NTS story.

Some players may feel NTRd by a little basset hound humping someone's leg, just like some may feel NTRd if the girls weren't virgins to begin with, or even started out in a relationship with others. Or if the sharing MC shares with someone they don't personally like. Or if other males even exist in the same planet. It simply doesn't matter in terms of categorizing it as an NTR or NTS or NTI story. There is no porn category that is defined by what x_haremking2000_x personally dislikes. NTTIL (not the thing I like) is not a valid porn category and NTR is not defined by it, despite how often game thread discussions get cluttered by people who childishly think like that.

We can discuss how effective a given piece of media with an NTS/NTR/NTI story is at providing a vicarious NTS/NTR/NTI experience for the audience, and how they could be better at it - particularly in the case of interactive games where the audience has agency/molds/shapes/consents to/deliberately wills aspects of the story - but a game with an NTS or vanilla or harem story doesn't suddenly become an NTR story game simply because the player - not the MC - doesn't like what happens.

 

[secondblue]

No the difference is consent.

 

[NateH]

Cheating and sharing are like stealing and charity

Everyone loves charity
Only thiefs relish the stealing

 

[AbdulGoran]

I think the difference is in control, ntr is without mc agreeing to it, sharing could be either all parties consent or without partners consent, either way the power dynamic is in favour of the mc. I'm down for sharing content in some cases but ntr has never been a turn on as I like to have control.

 

[Regress2529]

I think that it has a lot of overlap. A lot of NTS series start as NTS then develop into NTR. I like both so it doesn't really matter to me how it develops.

 

[blackpatje]

not the same, and unless the game is specificly made with it in mind i'd like to avoid both to be honest, the only sharing i have no problem with is adding another female.

 

[max331]

for me sharing and NTR are the same
sharing is just cuckold