discussion Proud Father (Off-Topic)

[csi_denver]

Yeah, Fantasy is one thing, Reality is something completely different, if you can't draw that line....

 

[Feral]

I'm not the one that "spread conspiracy theories". I believe it's the Australian government who are spreading conspiracy theories to the public.

Yes you are. You are defending a Rockspider who pled guilty to having real life images as well as videos of children being raped. Has it crossed your mind yet that defending a self admitted rockspider is not a good look for the forum

 

[Aerythox]

I feel like the Australian laws against entertainment in general is pretty strict, I remember a while back them banning some games and movies because they're too "violent" or "scary"

 

[Deleted member 9689]

Agreed - thankfully the vast vast majority, even on sites like these, have the same moral compass:

I might be jumping in without knowing the full context, but in my opinion, what you say here is the core: "A well-balanced moral compass". I am of (perhaps naively) the opinion that most of us on such a platform as LC, have a well-functioning moral compass. We will not cross the line of involving actual other human beings.

Feeling that this is a line that some that are here, or create such content becomes difficult, is a sign that perhaps this is not the best place to be.

For example, I love Roleplaying, and I enjoy making it dark, but I need to know that the person I am interacting with has no actual interesting to hurt or damage his/her fellow human being. I'm not actually attracted to young people, but even those that are, I can see that this is not something they wanted. Their Moral Compass however, it always needs to prevent them from harming.

 

[SmogJonkler]

Some people are unable to separate fantasy from reality. It's possible Mr. West is such a person. If he directed his perversion against real people, neighbors, little kids, then lock him up.

It doesn't seem like that is the reason he was initially arrested, however. He was arrested for drawing cartoons. I don't trust a country that arrests people for drawing cartoons. No one should.

This is the first I'm hearing of this, I thought he just got arrested and sentenced for the game alone but it would make more sense if he actually had illegal content on him.

 

[angband]

This is the first I'm hearing of this, I thought he just got arrested and sentenced for the game alone but it would make more sense if he actually had illegal content on him.

It's kind of a catch-22: He was found to have very disturbing RL material so it was good that he was caught and sentenced, but the only reason the investigation started was because the cops were looking into the game. So do we celebrate someone getting locked up who needed and deserved to, or do we call out a criminal investigation into something that shouldn't have been illegal in the first place? I can understand someone taking either side.

 

[Deleted member 9689]

So do we celebrate someone getting locked up who needed and deserved to, or do we call out a criminal investigation into something that shouldn't have been illegal in the first place?

honestly, someone who has IR stuff - no matter what got the police to investigate this person, legal or not - is always good that this person is caught. for the person him/herself, but also to avoid normalising this as well as making sure that this is material that will get you sentenced.

 

[SmogJonkler]

It's kind of a catch-22: He was found to have very disturbing RL material so it was good that he was caught and sentenced, but the only reason the investigation started was because the cops were looking into the game. So do we celebrate someone getting locked up who needed and deserved to, or do we call out a criminal investigation into something that shouldn't have been illegal in the first place? I can understand someone taking either side.

As fucked up as it is there's a little thought lingering in the back of my mind.
What if he was set up, what if it was planted?
What if they just wanted a scapegoat so they could go "See, I told you so!" And claim that people who are into 2d would also try to get their hand on real abuse material.
This might be a bit of a stretch but I have a feeling that puritans don't care about ethics when they want to prove themselves right.

 

[Yog-zathoth]

As fucked up as it is there's a little thought lingering in the back of my mind.
What if he was set up, what if it was planted?
What if they just wanted a scapegoat so they could go "See, I told you so!" And claim that people who are into 2d would also try to get their hand on real abuse material.
This might be a bit of a stretch but I have a feeling that puritans don't care about ethics when they want to prove themselves right.

I just think is a matter of chances, there are fucked up people who likes that stuff but never played a game like proud father, matter of fact most people who like that stuff you could never tell until is too late. This was just a case of someone who makes games like PF with those likes and unfortunately that does gives people a reason to put everyone who likes games like this on the same bag.

 

[irluan]

As fucked up as it is there's a little thought lingering in the back of my mind.
What if he was set up, what if it was planted?
What if they just wanted a scapegoat so they could go "See, I told you so!" And claim that people who are into 2d would also try to get their hand on real abuse material.
This might be a bit of a stretch but I have a feeling that puritans don't care about ethics when they want to prove themselves right.

In any situation you can always find ways to create conspiracies and in very, very rare cases that might even be true.
I don't believe this is the case for several reasons.

• This is Australia, a known country to have very strict laws regarding drug and porn representation in media, But it is still a country with a functioning Democracy, not an autocratic country where opponent of the leading parties are attacked and suffer barely veiled attacks.
• Mr. West is a nobody. He's not the head of a criminal organization, he's not someone attacking the Australian leadership/government he's not someone to discredit or that is exposing secrets Australia would rather hide (Check the David McBride whistleblowing for some real Australian legal malpractice to hide their own war crimes). Why would the police/prosecution go that far for him when it was already illegal for him to develop his game in Australia?
• This one is the one that at least on the personal level I believe incriminates him the most. According to other comments in this thread, he was faced with a choice of 11 years in prison if he plead guilty and 14 years if he insisted on pleading innocent. I don't know about you but if it was me I would never plead guilty to owning real ** and having spied on neighbors if I hadn't done it and would have kept shouting my innocence and fighting those charges all the way through my trial and sentence. If it was between death or life in prison? Maybe I would be that cowardly but for 3 years? No way.
  

 

[Yog-zathoth]

In any situation you can always find ways to create conspiracies and in very, very rare cases that might even be true.
I don't believe this is the case for several reasons.

• This is Australia, a known country to have very strict laws regarding drug and porn representation in media, But it is still a country with a functioning Democracy, not an autocratic country where opponent of the leading parties are attacked and suffer barely veiled attacks.
• Mr. West is a nobody. He's not the head of a criminal organization, he's not someone attacking the Australian leadership/government he's not someone to discredit or that is exposing secrets Australia would rather hide (Check the David McBride whistleblowing for some real Australian legal malpractice to hide their own war crimes). Why would the police/prosecution go that far for him when it was already illegal for him to develop his game in Australia?
• This one is the one that at least on the personal level I believe incriminates him the most. According to other comments in this thread, he was faced with a choice of 11 years in prison if he plead guilty and 14 years if he insisted on pleading innocent. I don't know about you but if it was me I would never plead guilty to owning real ** and having spied on neighbors if I hadn't done it and would have kept shouting my innocence and fighting those charges all the way through my trial and sentence. If it was between death or life in prison? Maybe I would be that cowardly but for 3 years? No way.

Wait. Just 14 years? I assume i would be far worse since its Australia and they don't play with that stuff over there

 

[wacytaco]

Damn that sucks for Westy. Hope his family isn't dealing with any bullshit.

 

[angband]

As fucked up as it is there's a little thought lingering in the back of my mind.
What if he was set up, what if it was planted?
What if they just wanted a scapegoat so they could go "See, I told you so!" And claim that people who are into 2d would also try to get their hand on real abuse material.
This might be a bit of a stretch but I have a feeling that puritans don't care about ethics when they want to prove themselves right.

I never seriously considered this a possibility because it stretches the limits of what is reasonable to believe. The main reason is, they already had him dead to rights just for creating the game, which was never in question. In Australia, fictional and RL content are equivalent in the eyes of the law, so while the RL stuff raised the ick factor by a lot, it didn't change the charges he was facing or the length of potential sentence. Because of this, it would make no sense for cops to plant additional evidence when it didn't add to their case but, if discovered, could lead to the whole case being thrown out of court for misconduct.

This is the reason why the standard for conviction is "beyond a reasonable doubt" in most developed nations. It is always possible to come up with a conspiracy or some invisible, unknowable force acting behind the scenes and if it all had to be considered, there could never be a reasonable prosecution of any case.

 

[herot32]

Wait. Just 14 years? I assume i would be far worse since its Australia and they don't play with that stuff over there

14 years is a pretty long time for somebody who never touched anybody or caused any direct victim pain.

Don't get me wrong - consuming and owning CSAM and videoing your female neighbors without permission is fucked up and deserves a sentence but even then 14 years isn't a walk in the park.

 

[User_88762]

It's kind of a catch-22: He was found to have very disturbing RL material so it was good that he was caught and sentenced, but the only reason the investigation started was because the cops were looking into the game. So do we celebrate someone getting locked up who needed and deserved to, or do we call out a criminal investigation into something that shouldn't have been illegal in the first place? I can understand someone taking either side.

The police could have used the game as an excuse to arrest him, knowing he had far worse shit on him. Could have been already building a case on him for a while, and just needed a good reason to have access to his stuff.

14 years is a pretty long time for somebody who never touched anybody or caused any direct victim pain.

Don't get me wrong - consuming and owning CSAM and videoing your female neighbors without permission is fucked up and deserves a sentence but even then 14 years isn't a walk in the park.

14 years is most likely the maximum he could have gotten, and the real sentence would be determined in court.

 

[angband]

The police could have used the game as an excuse to arrest him, knowing he had far worse shit on him. Could have been already building a case on him for a while, and just needed a good reason to have access to his stuff.

My understanding of how it all started was that someone entering the country was found to have the game as part of a routine scan of their electronic devices. Then they looked into the game and were able to track it back to him by subpoenaing financial records from itch.io or SS or whoever was hosting it & processing payments. If this is really how it went down, then they just lucked into the whole case, so to speak.

I'm not stating any of this as fact, just how I remember it. Details have always been kind of sketchy, and a fair amount of time has passed, so it is hard to know what really happened, but this seems like a reasonable timeline of events to me.

 

[herot32]

My understanding of how it all started was that someone entering the country was found to have the game as part of a routine scan of their electronic devices. Then they looked into the game and were able to track it back to him by subpoenaing financial records from itch.io or SS or whoever was hosting it & processing payments. If this is really how it went down, then they just lucked into the whole case, so to speak.

I'm not stating any of this as fact, just how I remember it. Details have always been kind of sketchy, and a fair amount of time has passed, so it is hard to know what really happened, but this seems like a reasonable timeline of events to me.

What routine check of electronic devices is done for people entering Australia?

I haven't been but I can't imagine they open everybody's laptop or phone and start going through the apps of everyone.

 

[AceOfNiagara]

What routine check of electronic devices is done for people entering Australia?

I haven't been but I can't imagine they open everybody's laptop or phone and start going through the apps of everyone.

They can

You must be registered to see links

 

[angband]

What routine check of electronic devices is done for people entering Australia?

I haven't been but I can't imagine they open everybody's laptop or phone and start going through the apps of everyone.

It's Australia, I don't put anything past them.

 

[Feral]

What routine check of electronic devices is done for people entering Australia?

I haven't been but I can't imagine they open everybody's laptop or phone and start going through the apps of everyone.

If you ever come to Australia, make sure you are using brand new phone, laptop, tablet, whatever as they can and will open the lot.. There is nothing you can do about it except hand it over to them