NTR tags rework. Please give your opinions (in a mature, calm, constructive manner).

[User_9060]

Well to me flashbacks and the like are TMI (Too Much Information) and there are a LOT of devs that just cannot help themselves from giving out that TMI, even after being told "Hey I as a player do not want to fucking know [X]!" in stuff like betas. I've actually had devs say they were "shocked" at how poorly things were received when a LI right before fucking the MC decide then was the best time to talk about other guys/gals they had fucked. Like seriously TMI is an epidemic. IMO that needs a bloody tag.

On another note, I despise lesbian/bi content. It's overdone and almost never done well. Every time it ends up the bi/lesbians get more action than the MC in supposedly "harem" games. Which if there are girls "in love" and fucking in the group it is no longer a harem anymore, it's a poly relationship. So I don't want to see it and I don't want to hear about it. And if I'm supposedly given the option to shut it down only for it to happen anyway I get royally pissed.

I've quit games I've supported financially that have pulled both of the above before and I'm sure I'll do it again because devs just don't learn or refuse to be honest about their content.

As to the NTR tag, yeah splitting it into three is about the best you're gonna get. If you want to get more accurate some other tags should be used (like that sex with others tag I've seen suggested here and elsewhere). Though I do believe it would behoove your site to allow people who have actually played games report if it has tags missing. Too many shady devs out there pulling out the "technically" and "well acktually" excuses to dodge certain tags (not limited to NTR either, seen sandbox devs pull the same stunt on a certain site that shall remain nameless). Players will download a game thinking it won't have something they hate. They run across it (seriously hard to "hide" stuff like sandbox but some devs still try). Then players that hate that content come to threads and start bitching. And threads devolve into fighting matches. If everyone knows what everything has and are informed clearly ahead of time, it's their own damned fault if they play something they hate.

when they show the li getting banged even in a flashback is just cuck shit, if it is just hinted in the text is still cuck shit, TMI is when the girl just say some stupid non-sense like she did date / fuck before or all that (basically when she gives you info about shit she did do).

Showing a li getting banged in a flashback doesn't fully count as tmi because the dev is basically cucking the player. (you can however add both.)

 

[Darkrift411]

At this point, what I need from you guys are things that YOU feel are NTR or NTR-ish but others argue they are not really NTR so they do not get the tag. I am trying to cover all of these unwanted or polarizing kinks/genres in the tags so people can easily avoid the shit they do not like without having to ask in a thread or argue with someone about it.

I want scenarios that DO NOT FIT INTO the stuff below:

Sharing - MC willingly allows someone else to have sex with their LI. The problem is that the player may not want this and may not have been given a choice.
Sub-tags: Sharing (with male), Sharing (with female)
Examples:

• MC lets other people (male and female) perform sexual acts with their LIs. (Plain "Sharing" tag covers both, or could use both sub-tags)
• MC lets other females perform sexual acts with their LIs. (Sharing (with female) tag)
• MC lets other males perform sexual acts with their LIs. (Sharing (with male) tag)
• Note: IF avoidable, this should be stated in the game description area so it is clear to the players.
• Note: Skippable is NOT the same as avoidable.

Threesome - MC willingly allows a third person to join in on their sex with an LI. The problem is that the player may not want this and may not have been given a choice.

Swinging - MC and another person willingly swap partners so MC fucks their LI and they fuck MC's LI. The problem is that the player may not want this and may not have been given a choice.

Cheating (by MC) - MC cheats on their LIs. This is very common in most Harems until the point where they are all told about the others and choose to accept it and become a harem.

Cheating (by LI) - LI cheats on the MC. This is/should-be NTR and also have an NTR tag.

Harem (Strict) - MC's LIs are not allowed to have any content with the others that was not requested or demanded by MC)

Harem (Poly) - MC's LIs are allowed to fool around with the other LIs and this is not meant to be considered cheating or NTR. Typically used for the LIs to have some fun with each other without MC participating.

MC Cucked - MC is cucked. Someone is performing sexual acts on the MC's LI. Slightly different from NTR because the MC likely gets off on it or enjoys it even if (or especially because) they have negative feelings about it.

Cucking - MC is cucking someone else by performing sexual acts on their LI with the intention of causing jealousy or negative feelings.

LI Sex with others - This would be a more blanket tag that covers any scenario where you see or are told about one of your LIs having sexual contact with someone other than the MC.

• NOTE: This is too much like the "Possibly Unwanted Content" (name still pending) tag but "Sex with" doesnt really cover shit like dreams because having sex in a dream is not really having sex... So this one feels like it will be abused with "technically its not actual sex".

Possibly Unwanted Content (Stuff developers frequently add to a game that lots of people try to call NTR) (Needs less offensive name)
Examples (these do not cover every situation, so some common sense will be required):

• MC sees his hot neighbor through her window, then sees her husband fuck her. NOT NTR because she is NOT YOURS.
• Flashback of MCs father pounding his mother before he was born. NOT NTR because she WAS not yours. Even if she is now.
• Hearing the hot cashier at the store talk about giving a blowjob. NOT NTR because she is not yours.
• MC's ex-girlfriend (from before the game started) seen having sex with new boyfriend. NOT NTR because she is NO LONGER yours.
• Flashback of your LI being raped before you met her. NOT NTR because she WAS not yours. Even if she is now.
• Dream of your LI having sex with someone else. NOT NTR because it is not real. It's a dream.
• Hearing your LI talk about or seeing past sex they have had. NOT NTR because she was not yours.
• Game making it clear how big of a slut your LI was before you. NOT NTR because she WAS not yours.
• MC is in love with his (mother? sister?) but she has a husband/boyfriend who has sex with her but she is not yours yet. NOT NTR because she is not yours yet.
• MC breaks up with or chooses friend path with LI, who then becomes someone else's LI and has sex with them. NOT NTR because she is no longer yours.
• Player seeing/hearing about almost any sex involving an LI and someone else, regardless of when/who/where or whether it was in a dream, flashback, vision, etc.

 

[User_9060]

what about if you simplify and add a tag like "Ntr to the player" that way any LI showed in text or renders to the player (be it in flashback or whatever) will get this tag and those of us that hate that can avoid the game..
The dev can always specify what kind is.... (with females or males).
And by ntr I mean both netorare and netorase or any cuck stuff like sharing, swinging.

 

[Cotytto]

IMO you are going to just make things overcomplicated. Use the three tags and maybe a few others. Leave it up to the players and allow them to say in the thread exactly what kind of content they might find objectionable. Then they can ignore the thread. You get too into the details and things are just gonna get lost in the shuffle and shady devs will use it as loopholes. Some of the PUC examples are to me 100% cuck content on top of being unwanted so lines are already being blurred imo. Just because someone isn't a "current" LI does not mean I want to see them banging anyone. And to me any dev that considers putting voyeuristic scenes will go on my ignore list along with all their games. Because I don't want to see such content. Ever.

Whatever you do you should really run it past others before committing because your own personal definitions in that example are already okaying things I (and likely others) find completely intolerable.

 

[Darkrift411]

IMO you are going to just make things overcomplicated. Use the three tags and maybe a few others. Leave it up to the players and allow them to say in the thread exactly what kind of content they might find objectionable. Then they can ignore the thread. You get too into the details and things are just gonna get lost in the shuffle and shady devs will use it as loopholes. Some of the PUC examples are to me 100% cuck content on top of being unwanted so lines are already being blurred imo. Just because someone isn't a "current" LI does not mean I want to see them banging anyone. And to me any dev that considers putting voyeuristic scenes will go on my ignore list along with all their games. Because I don't want to see such content. Ever.

Whatever you do you should really run it past others before committing because your own personal definitions in that example are already okaying things I (and likely others) find completely intolerable.

What are you even talking about? Nothing is being OK'd in that list.

I... just.... WHAT? Do you completely fail to see the point of all of this, or are you just failing to read?

The ENTIRE point of this is to make tags for shit PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO SEE. I do not even once come close to saying any of that shit is OK. 90% of it is gross to me and I avoid the fuck out of it.

I am not condoning ANY OF IT. I am not saying ANY OF IT IS OK. How do you even get that idea from what was posted?

My point is that the Anti-NTR crowd (which I am starting to distance myself from because... this is embarrassing) all have different ideas on what is NTR. And most do not match the definition. Most of you guys just think anything you do not like is NTR. That's not how the world works. Words do not just change their meaning based on your feelings. This is why you guys are always losing every NTR argument you get into because nobody can agree on anything.

Do you want the NTR tag to just mean "anything that someone might not like regarding sex"? If so, we can do that and just give every game the NTR tag because every game has something someone doesn't like. I dont like feet shit, so all games with feet shit can get the NTR tag. I hate scat, so NTR! Oh, I dont like it when there is a male cashier at the convenience store, NTR! Mother is not lewdable? NTR! Sister peeked in on me fucking mom? NTR! Dev doesn't let you lewd the little sister? NTR!

This is why no sites even try to fix this NTR shit. Because one side enjoys the NTR fights and the other side is so disorganized and utterly unwilling to work with anything except "MY WAY!" that there is no point to it. Just let them cry about it and ban the ones that wont stop clogging up threads with this shit.

Cant you guys at least see that I am trying to fix this shit? I hate almost everything on that fucking list, but I am trying to MAKE IT EASIER for people like me to avoid the shit they dislike. And yet all I get is "No, MY DEFINITION OF NTR IS RIGHT AND EVERYONE ELSE'S IS WRONG!!!"

 

[Cotytto]

You do realize most of the people here are refugees from a site where mods routinely abused their power in favor of cuck crap right? We are going to have major trust issues with anyone of authority. And the way you explain things leaves a lot to be desired. You frankly come off as an apologist, a "neutral", or a creator of loopholes. I trust Severed. I don't know Crowley as well as Severed but I feel he'd be about as honest. That's it as far as my trust goes. I don't know you, I've never interacted with you, and frankly I don't trust you. You haven't earned it. And likely you never will. You certainly do seem to get very upset and defensive when anyone questions you or your motives, just like mods of a certain site.

Don't ask for opinions if you can't handle people with differing ones or feel slighted when others can't peer inside your head and understand what you mean.

 

[Darkrift411]

I am coming to the conclusion that some of you guys dont actually want this content to be avoidable using tags, you just want a reason to complain about it. If it gets tagged so that you can easily avoid the shit you dont like, you wouldn't have an excuse to go argue about NTR in the thread.

You do realize most of the people here are refugees from a site where mods routinely abused their power in favor of cuck crap right? We are going to have major trust issues with anyone of authority. And the way you explain things leaves a lot to be desired. You frankly come off as an apologist, a "neutral", or a creator of loopholes. I trust Severed. I don't know Crowley as well as Severed but I feel he'd be about as honest. That's it as far as my trust goes. I don't know you, I've never interacted with you, and frankly I don't trust you. You haven't earned it. And likely you never will. You certainly do seem to get very upset and defensive when anyone questions you or your motives, just like mods of a certain site.

Don't ask for opinions if you can't handle people with differing ones or feel slighted when others can't peer inside your head and understand what you mean.

I am not being apologetic or neutral. I am just being very clear and honest about which parts I actually do not like. I am also being clear about the fact that what you say you want and what you seem to actually want are two different things.

I have stated multiple times that I am against "cuck" crap, but the problem is you do not seem to understand what "cuck" crap is. You are just tossing anything you dislike into single terms.

CUCK
noun

• a weak or servile man (often used as a contemptuous term for a man with moderate or progressive political views).
  "we act like a bunch of cucks who let them take what they want"
• a man whose wife is sexually unfaithful; a cuckold.

verb

• make (a man) a cuckold by having a sexual relationship with his wife or by being sexually unfaithful to him.

So... technically unless the MC is married, doesn't seem like the term "cuck" works for most of these. But words don't matter much to you do they?

Also, I am not getting upset, so much as frustrated. I fail to see how it is so difficult for you to read and comprehend what I am saying. Just keep using your special words with their special meaning and using those as a defense to argue with people on the internet about content you say you dont like, but you are unable to avoid in threads you are drawn to.

 

[allstarsniper32]

Not gonna get in to the discussion, just wanted to vote other and say I'd like for both options to happen. If you change it to just the Japanese words I'll always forget what they mean.

 

[Darkrift411]

Not gonna get in to the discussion, just wanted to vote other and say I'd like for both options to happen. If you change it to just the Japanese words I'll always forget what they mean.

And you are in the majority. Most people I talked to about it were not able to accurately explain the diff between the 3. (Hell, until a few weeks ago neither was I). And the whole point of this is to make it work for everyone. Thanks for your vote.

Although to be fair, if both happened it would probably just cause more confusion.
#1 is the easiest for me. I can just not do a damned thing and wash my hands of this whole thing.
#2 feels like it would give users and devs the most control. Users can specify EXACTLY which of the tags they dont want to see. Devs wont get a blanket tag that might not cover their content properly.
#3 so far has not produced much else, but a lot of the suggestions ive gotten from this (some in DM and some in Discord) went into me making the work-in-progress rough-draft of the tag definitions.

Combining 1+2 would mean some games get one of the 3 neto* tags but also need the other tags to explain it.

 

[Wolf Larsen]

At this point, what I need from you guys are things that YOU feel are NTR or NTR-ish but others argue they are not really NTR so they do not get the tag. I am trying to cover all of these unwanted or polarizing kinks/genres in the tags so people can easily avoid the shit they do not like without having to ask in a thread or argue with someone about it.

I want scenarios that DO NOT FIT INTO the stuff below:

One thing that caught my attention is the heavy usage of the term "LI" (love interest). For example:

"Sharing - MC willingly allows someone else to have sex with their LI. The problem is that the player may not want this and may not have been given a choice."

Remember the example that I gave in my first post? (MC has sex with a random woman and "shares" her with a guy). What I'm trying to say is, almost all of the tags you listed will be able to be avoided if the female character in question (or male in gay/straight female games) is argued as not being a love interest. And this kind of a big deal, since the scenario I described is clearly a threesome, and even your threesome tag is: "MC willingly allows a third person to join in on their sex with an LI."
Also,

"NOTE: This is too much like the "Possibly Unwanted Content" (name still pending) tag but "Sex with" doesnt really cover shit like dreams because having sex in a dream is not really having sex... So this one feels like it will be abused with "technically its not actual sex"."

The VNDB's definition is: "This game has at least one scene in which a character engages in sex with someone other than the protagonist."

The keyword here is scene. Is it a dream? Is it a what-if scenario? Doesn't matter, it is still a scene of sexual nature with two or more characters, and none of them is the protagonist (again, if one of them is a love interest or not in the developer's eyes, it is irrelevant). Even if somebody tries to use Bill Clinton's defense ("just a lil handjob is not really sex"), the tag would still apply.

The main problem with the Sex With Others's VNDB definition is that it excludes lesbian sex when the protagonist is a male, and I understand that this became an issue lately. In my opinion, there should be a secondary tag to the Lesbian tag that describes a game having scenes with only women being involved (such as a "Lesbian All Girl", or something like that). Harem (Poly) is not enough, because of the "love interest" issue, and the game may not even be a proper harem in the first place, and still have such a scene.

EDIT: Also, maybe a bit off-topic, the lesbian issue also touches on a very common complaint among players looking for games with only homosexual content. All Male (Gay) and All Female (Lesbian), plus the Protagonist tags also reflecting their sexualities (Lesbian Protagonist, Gay Protagonist) could be all good additions to mitigate this.

 

[Darkrift411]

One thing that caught my attention is the heavy usage of the term "LI" (love interest). For example:

"Sharing - MC willingly allows someone else to have sex with their LI. The problem is that the player may not want this and may not have been given a choice."

Remember the example that I gave in my first post? (MC has sex with a random woman and "shares" her with a guy). What I'm trying to say is, almost all of the tags you listed will be able to be avoided if the female character in question (or male in gay/straight female games) is argued as not being a love interest. And this kind of a big deal, since the scenario I described is clearly a threesome, and even your threesome tag is: "MC willingly allows a third person to join in on their sex with an LI."
Also,

"NOTE: This is too much like the "Possibly Unwanted Content" (name still pending) tag but "Sex with" doesnt really cover shit like dreams because having sex in a dream is not really having sex... So this one feels like it will be abused with "technically its not actual sex"."

The VNDB's definition is: "This game has at least one scene in which a character engages in sex with someone other than the protagonist."

The keyword here is scene. Is it a dream? Is it a what-if scenario? Doesn't matter, it is still a scene of sexual nature with two or more characters, and none of them is the protagonist (again, if one of them is a love interest or not in the developer's eyes, it is irrelevant). Even if somebody tries to use Bill Clinton's defense ("just a lil handjob is not really sex"), the tag would still apply.

The main problem with the Sex With Others's VNDB definition is that it excludes lesbian sex when the protagonist is a male, and I understand that this became an issue lately. In my opinion, there should be a secondary tag to the Lesbian tag that describes a game having scenes with only women being involved (such as a "Lesbian All Girl", or something like that). Harem (Poly) is not enough, because of the "love interest" issue, and the game may not even be a proper harem in the first place, and still have such a scene.

Finally someone with some actually useful constructive criticism. You deserve a fucking medal.

So you would change "LI"" with "character"? What about something stupid where your best friend is bragging about fucking some girl at camp 5 years ago and the devs shows it. You have not and never will meet this girl, but would you still consider her having sex as a NOPE? (and yes, I agree this is a stupid example.. but.. all of us have seem some stupid reasons to show unrelated sex scenes in games so it is still valid).

Are we saying this tag should include anyone who is not the MC having any kind of contact with anyone who is not the MC that is of a sexual nature? Or do we use theirs where it is "engages in sex" because speaking of loopholes, I see like 3 right here. Some people do not consider handjobs or blowjobs sex. Some people do not consider lesbians eating each other sex (because no penis is inserted into the vagina), and most people would not consider your girl being spied on sex, but I know a lot of people who think someone else spying on your girl naked (dressing rooms, or the beach scene in DMD as examples) as "NTR".

I also agree and understand the lesbian sex part. I wanted to keep this list of tags as small as possible, but I am (as I have clearly stated) not in the group that is bothered by lesbian sex. To me, as long as its not a dick it doesn't really bother me. I am not FOR lesbian sex between LI's unless they are mother/daughter or sisters, but it doesn't give me the "that's fucking gross" feeling that I get when another dude is introduced into the scene. So I am on the wall about having it just be ANYONE, or making 2 tags to break up male/female.

Can you explain the poly part better? I couldnt think of a better term to use for a harem where the girls are not restricted from interacting with themselves. And would your issue with this be solved by changing all LI to character?

##EDIT##

Also now that I think about it, wouldn't any game with "threesome" (even it was just MC and two girls) need to also have that tag in it? Because unless we define sex as a penis entering a vagina, that would/could be considered them having sex with each other.

 

[Wolf Larsen]

So you would change "LI"" with "character"? What about something stupid where your best friend is bragging about fucking some girl at camp 5 years ago and the devs shows it. You have not and never will meet this girl, but would you still consider her having sex as a NOPE? (and yes, I agree this is a stupid example.. but.. all of us have seem some stupid reasons to show unrelated sex scenes in games so it is still valid).

Yep, the game would still get indiscriminately tagged with Sex With Others (or the "Unwanted Content", in your words). My idea is that the developer, or whoever edits the OP, can clarify this if they so choose. I think Being a Dik is such an example of a game getting this tag, but it could be explained that the scene happened between NPCs unrelated to the protagonist (AFAIK).

Are we saying this tag should include anyone who is not the MC having any kind of contact with anyone who is not the MC that is of a sexual nature? Or do we use theirs where it is "engages in sex" because speaking of loopholes, I see like 3 right here. Some people do not consider handjobs or blowjobs sex. Some people do not consider lesbians eating each other sex (because no penis is inserted into the vagina), and most people would not consider your girl being spied on sex, but I know a lot of people who think someone else spying on your girl naked (dressing rooms, or the beach scene in DMD as examples) as "NTR".

I think it would be best to ignore Bill Clinton and consider oral sex or handjobs as sex indiscriminately. Lesbianism in male protagonist games would get a separate tag. But you touched upon "unwanted" voyeurism (the "spying" aspect). Yeah, I didn't think about that.

Voyeurism is an example of a tag/kink that has a vague definition. "The activity of getting pleasure from secretly watching other people in sexual situations". So it can go multiple ways since it could mean the protagonist spying on a love interest, but it could be also done by a third party.

I don't see a way out of the voyeurism dilemma except yet making it another tag broken down into more specifics (MC Voyeurism, NPC Voyeurism - it could even specify the gender of the NPC in question since it could be another woman/love interest).

I also agree and understand the lesbian sex part. I wanted to keep this list of tags as small as possible, but I am (as I have clearly stated) not in the group that is bothered by lesbian sex. To me, as long as its not a dick it doesn't really bother me. I am not FOR lesbian sex between LI's unless they are mother/daughter or sisters, but it doesn't give me the "that's fucking gross" feeling that I get when another dude is introduced into the scene. So I am on the wall about having it just be ANYONE, or making 2 tags to break up male/female.

Can you explain the poly part better? I couldnt think of a better term to use for a harem where the girls are not restricted from interacting with themselves. And would your issue with this be solved by changing all LI to character?

A "Sex With Others" would not include lesbian sex in a male-protagonist game, for that, another tag would be required. This tag would signalize a game that has sex scenes with only female characters involved, without the protagonist (or any other male).

This has nothing to do with "harem". Meaning, a game can also have such a scene (lesbians with no protagonist) and not be a harem at all. That's what I meant that a tag called "Harem (Poly)" on its own will not cover this issue.

In fact, a game with the Harem tag plus this tag of "All Female Sex" should mostly cover the "Harem (Poly)" tag. But, it is important to note that lesbianism is also implied in group sex scenes where the protagonist is involved (classic example:

You must be registered to see links

). So the Harem (Poly) tag maybe should exist alongside the "All Girl" tag.

##EDIT##

Also now that I think about it, wouldn't any game with "threesome" (even it was just MC and two girls) need to also have that tag in it? Because unless we define sex as a penis entering a vagina, that would/could be considered them having sex with each other.

Yes. Threesome is simply three people doing sexual acts together. Doesn't matter the gender of the participants or their relationship status. Running from this basic rule would be a bit misleading. There are popular acronyms, that also denote if there is bisexuality involved (MFF = the two women touch each other; FMF = they don't).

 

[Darkrift411]

Yep, the game would still get indiscriminately tagged with Sex With Others (or the "Unwanted Content", in your words). My idea is that the developer, or whoever edits the OP, can clarify this if they so choose. I think Being a Dik is such an example of a game getting this tag, but it could be explained that the scene happened between NPCs unrelated to the protagonist (AFAIK).



I think it would be best to ignore Bill Clinton and consider oral sex or handjobs as sex indiscriminately. Lesbianism in male protagonist games would get a separate tag. But you touched upon "unwanted" voyeurism (the "spying" aspect). Yeah, I didn't think about that.

Voyeurism is an example of a tag/kink that has a vague definition. "The activity of getting pleasure from secretly watching other people in sexual situations". So it can go multiple ways since it could mean the protagonist spying on a love interest, but it could be also done by a third party.

I don't see a way out of the voyeurism dilemma except yet making it another tag broken down into more specifics (MC Voyeurism, NPC Voyeurism - it could even specify the gender of the NPC in question since it could be another woman/love interest).


A "Sex With Others" would not include lesbian sex in a male-protagonist game, for that, another tag would be required. This tag would signalize a game that has sex scenes with only female characters involved, without the protagonist (or any other male).

This has nothing to do with "harem". Meaning, a game can also have such a scene (lesbians with no protagonist) and not be a harem at all. That's what I meant that a tag called "Harem (Poly)" on its own will not cover this issue.

In fact, a game with the Harem tag plus this tag of "All Female Sex" should mostly cover the "Harem (Poly)" tag. But, it is important to note that lesbianism is also implied in group sex scenes where the protagonist is involved (classic example:

You must be registered to see links

). So the Harem (Poly) tag maybe should exist alongside the "All Girl" tag.



Yes. Threesome is simply three people doing sexual acts together. Doesn't matter the gender of the participants or their relationship status. Running from this basic rule would be a bit misleading. There are popular acronyms, that also denote if there is bisexuality involved (MFF = the two women touch each other; FMF = they don't).

You dont happen to be in the LC Discord do you? I would love to discuss this in a less slowed down medium if you are up for it.

My only real complaint with what you are saying is that it will need even more tags... which is something I tried to avoid, but I am more willing to have more tags if we can cover everything that can be a problem. I am willing to put in the extra work if it has a chance to reduce the fighting.

 

[Darkrift411]

My (serious) question to everyone reading this thread:

What do you want when it comes to NTR and its related kinks/genres?

1. I want to be able to avoid games that have kinks/genres that I dislike in them.
2. I want to try to change the dev's mind so they remove kinks/genres I dislike from their game.
3. I want to be able to complain and argue in game threads about kinks/genres in their game.
4. I want to find games with NTR and related kinks/genres in them to play.
5. I want to try to coerce/trick/lure players into playing this kind of content to see their reactions.

I ask this because my aim was to help with #1, but it feels like a lot of people replying in here just want #2 and #3. Keeping the tags vague help people to continue doing #3, and also allow them to request the NTR tag go on any game with content they dont want.

 

[Myuhinny]

I ask this because my aim was to help with #1

Well a person can already avoid tags they don't like. Click profile icon - preferences - ignoring - click tags tab - click add tags then start adding tags to their ignore list so that games with those tags will be blocked.

For me if I see the NTR tag if it looks interesting I'll look around to see if it's avoidable if it isn't then I'll pass on the game.

 

[Darkrift411]

Well a person can already avoid tags they don't like. Click profile icon - preferences - ignoring - click tags tab - click add tags then start adding tags to their ignore list so that games with those tags will be blocked.

For me if I see the NTR tag if it looks interesting I'll look around to see if it's avoidable if it isn't then I'll pass on the game.

But if it is not tagged, you cant avoid it. Or if it does not have a tag that covers the kink you dislike.

 

[baloneysammich]

I voted #1. To me NTR has always meant netorare and nothing more. Probably because when I first heard of it I googled "What is NTR" and pretty much everything indicated it is strictly an abbreviation/initialism for netorare.

I have had discussions with people on Fuck95 (including the venerable @Wolf Larsen) in hopes of finding a similar solution there. It's not an easy task and I sympathize with your efforts.

I'm also not a fan of netorare, but I have a very strict/limited definition for it and as such have no problem with much (if not most) of the things that tend to get associated with it. Even less so than you AFAICT, but that doesn't matter if we're working to the same goal. Similar to you, I want a tagging system that doesn't force me to do a deep dive because of an overly broad (and therefore largely useless) tag. Though I think it's just as important that the solution satisfies netorare fans as well.

There were a few points in your things that don't fit post that I wanted to comment on:

Sharing - MC willingly allows someone else to have sex with their LI. The problem is that the player may not want this and may not have been given a choice.
Main problem with this is that sometimes it's a "random" that's shared, rather than someone the MC is in a relationship with. I think anything involving a "Love Interest" (see last paragraph) belongs under MC Cucked or netorase instead. Speaking of which...

MC Cucked - MC is cucked. Someone is performing sexual acts on the MC's LI. Slightly different from NTR because the MC likely gets off on it or enjoys it even if (or especially because) they have negative feelings about it.
To me this is fairly close to netorase, though AFAICT in netorase there's no concept of the MC having negative feelings about the situation. In many contexts netorase is summarized as "willing cuckold" but I'm not sure that's completely valid. Because cuckold has an implication of weakness which I'm not sure is the case with netorase. That being said, of the three neto categories netorase is the one I understand the least.

Cucking - MC is cucking someone else by performing sexual acts on their LI with the intention of causing jealousy or negative feelings.
To me this is pretty much synonymous with netori, although as I understand it's not necessarily about shaming the stolen character's partner; it can just as easily happen in secret. In any case I'm not sure the distinction (negative feelings in the cuckolded NPC) is necessary. Also FWIW, strongly-anti-netorare folks tend to be fine with netori, if not actively enjoy and advocate for it.

One final point: another thing that is a cause of contention is the concept of LI. To some, any romanceable character is immediately an LI. That perspective seems to be particularly prevalent among people who are strongly-anti-NTR. To me it doesn't really make sense to talk about cuckolding/netorare/jealousy/etc unless there's a reasonable expectation "in universe" of fidelity. IOW, an active relationship or at least the beginnings of "courtship".

 

[Darkrift411]

I voted #1. To me NTR has always meant netorare and nothing more. Probably because when I first heard of it I googled "What is NTR" and pretty much everything indicated it is strictly an abbreviation/initialism for netorare.

I have had discussions with people on Fuck95 (including the venerable @Wolf Larsen) in hopes of finding a similar solution there. It's not an easy task and I sympathize with your endeavour.

I'm also not a fan of netorare, but I have a very strict/limited definition for it and as such have no problem with much (if not most) of the things that tend to get associated with it. Even less so than you AFAICT, but that doesn't matter if we're working to the same goal. Similar to you, I want a tagging system that doesn't force me to do a deep dive because of an overly broad (and therefore largely useless) tag. Though I think it's just as important that the solution satisfies netorare fans as well.

There were a few points in your things that don't fit post that I wanted to comment on:

Sharing - MC willingly allows someone else to have sex with their LI. The problem is that the player may not want this and may not have been given a choice.
Main problem with this is that sometimes it's a "random" that's shared, rather than someone the MC is in a relationship with. I think anything involving a "Love Interest" (see last paragraph) belongs under MC Cucked or netorase instead. Speaking of which...

MC Cucked - MC is cucked. Someone is performing sexual acts on the MC's LI. Slightly different from NTR because the MC likely gets off on it or enjoys it even if (or especially because) they have negative feelings about it.
To me this is fairly close to netorase, though AFAICT in netorase there's no concept of the MC having negative feelings about the decision. In many contexts netorase is summarized as "willing cuckold" but I'm not sure that's completely valid. Because cuckold has an implication of weakness which I'm not sure is the case with netorase. That being said, of the three neto categories netorase is the one I understand the least.

Cucking - MC is cucking someone else by performing sexual acts on their LI with the intention of causing jealousy or negative feelings.
To me this is pretty much synonymous with netori, although as I understand it's not necessarily about shaming the stolen character's partner; it can just as easily happen in secret. In any case I'm not sure the distinction (negative feelings in the cuckolded NPC) is necessary. Also FWIW, strongly-anti-netorare folks tend to be fine with netori, if not actively enjoy and advocate for it.

One final point: another thing that is a cause of contention is the concept of LI. To some, any romanceable character is immediately an LI. That perspective seems to be particularly prevalent among people who are strongly-anti-NTR. To me it doesn't really make sense to talk about cuckolding/netorare/jealousy/etc unless there's a reasonable expectation "in universe" of fidelity. IOW, an active relationship or at least the beginnings of "courtship".

You are pretty much right on, those were sort of meant to be English versions of the neto* tags, but those were not meant to be definitions as much as like examples (and very rough draft of them, I was hoping to have people help me clarify them. I also was trying to cover all of the things people consider NTR that do not fit into the usual neto* definitions.

But... that is not really needed now. I have determined based on the poll results and my loss of will after dealing with this thread that I am going to take the easy way out. I no longer feel that there will be any benefit from spending days fixing this shit because I am 100% convinced the most vocal anti-NTR people are not wanting it to be fixed, they like it the way it is because it gives them a reason to argue on the internet.

So with that said, I have made sure that Netorare, Netori and Netorase tags have been created. I added the definitions from VNDB (with Crowley's blessing) and that is what we will use. I am in the process of making it so that users can report missing or invalid tags via the report function

 

[baloneysammich]

my loss of will after dealing with this thread

I can absolutely sympathize with that.

 

[User_9060]

technically

Funny you say this same thing to me, I have tagged games in vndb for longer than you may have moderated a site and I can tell you that seeing a li getting banged by some other guy you are "technically" cucking the player because the LI's (love interest) exist in visual novels for the players / mcs to romance them per see watching them with others is the same as watching your wife/gf or whatever fuck.