I think it depends on what you mean by "in the past". Do you mean last night? She was your LI for the last week, but last night someone fucked her? Then yes, because she was your LI at the time.
Yes, I am working on placing that. I personally have no issue with 2 LIs doing shit as long as they are both girls. I know that is sexist, but I cant change how I feel. So I am having to find a way to add that in without devs losing the Harem tag. Most people who complain about this say "they are not a harem then because it is poly, so they cant have the tag" and I dont agree with that. So I am thinking possible 2 harem tags, one where where that is not allowed and one where it is. Maybe a mix of harem/poly, but... the problem with that is it COULD mean the LIs are allowed to sleep with others not in the harem (such as other guys), and that would REALLY not be a harem. It would have to clearly define that only poly within the harem is allowed. And my brain fucking hurts now.
And this is 100% why I am trying to rework this tag, so the single "NTR" tag does not try to cover 100 different things that people dislike and instantly call NTR.Please feel free to disagree and correct my interpretation...it seems as though this is a matter of semantics and a "lost in translation" concern. That is, when you take the definition from one culture and assume it applies across all cultural perspectives and definitions, you lose something in the process. The idea that NTR is only one thing and we need tags from the Western language, i.e. Cuckolding, Sharing, etc. is more about people not understanding that, in most cases, we are talking about the same thing - "a rose by any other name, blah, blah, blah..."
Maybe I am missing the mark here, I just feel like having a single tag with an extremely open definition leads to the ongoing conflict about what it all means. I posted the following recently in another thread (apparently I overstepped there) and maybe it helps explain my take on NTR. If it helps, great. If not, that is also great.
The 'NTR' tag potentially covers various forms of netorare/netori/netorase and, as such, it can be applied in several ways. (notice there are three separate, yet adjacent terms for NTR ).
Through the actions (or inaction) of the protagonist, or within an agreement with the their partner (wife, fiance, girlfriend), the partner ends up engaging in sexual relations with other people. Typically only the wife/fiance/girlfriend has sex with another (otherwise it is swinging - wherein both partners have sex with different people). Or sharing, wherein the protagonist is willing to have their partner have sex with another as long as they are also involved. Or, swapping, wherein the protagonist will swap their partner, allowing them to have sex with another while they, in turn, are allowed to have sex with the other's partner - yes, it is variation on swinging, although typically reserved for couples swinging together as compared to the swinging where it could be anyone.
In most NTR cases neither partner wants to cheat, although one or both of them is excited by the prospect of sex with another person - either as the participant or as someone that enjoys watching their partner being pleasured by another (yes, they can be involved depending on which version you are talking about *see above*). This can be something that happens based on an agreement between both partners or it could be where the protagonist convinces the other to have sex with someone for their enjoyment or personal gain, basically 'pimping out' or whoring their partner for their own enjoyment.
Regardless of which form it takes, the partner is having sex with another and both parties may enjoy it or, only one enjoys it.
NTR is the satisfaction of a kink/fetish desire, whereas swinging is a lifestyle, polyamory involves romantic feelings with others over the long term, cheating is completely deceptive and cuckolding is where the partner desires sex with others and the protagonist is powerless to stop it from happening (this CAN be a form of NTR, however it isn't the ONLY form of NTR).
All of that said, I see NTR is a much more complex process than standard cheating or cuckolding, which is why we see all of those tags available for visual novels and games here in the forums. In other words, the NTR tag may apply in addition to or in adjacency to the other commonly used tags (swinging, sharing, swapping, cuckolding, cheating, etc.).
Of course, this will continue to be an ongoing argument and the pro-NTR crowd will demand their NTR and the Harem crowd will scream "they are all MINE!!", while the incest group is just hoping mom and the siblings give it up with their aunt's encouragement and the MILF crowd will only really care if the MC is younger with the "landlady's" booty big enough for 4K full screen...all while the loli folks wonder where the uncensored versions of their VN/game can be found.
At any rate, I am rambling and just wanted to share a definition and take on the NTR thing. (Disclaimer: This is after reading several other definitions of the term and comparing it to what was used in the West).
Because NTR isn't as simple as a lot of people try to make it sound, there will continue to be arguments.
Same I have no problem if the LI's want to have fun with each other hell I don't even have a problem if LI's want to have sex with other female characters other then other LI's.
Same, its sexist of me, but as long as the other female character is not actively trying to take her from you, it doesnt bother me.
And this is the great debate so how to properly tag it... I can deal with a little of the lesbian stuff but it always bothers me when the mc is not somehow directly involved. I have already discussed this with others in my games. My Li's will not all be bi nor will they do any lesbian stuff without the mc somehow being in the middle of it and it never happens without him. (Example: Lily in Severed Realms will be bi BUT she will never do anything with ANY girl withouth the mc present. She will be one of the girls that help lure other girls to the mc's bed.)
To be fair, I am not really into lesbian shit either. But one of my favorite genres is incest, and lesbian shit between sisters or mother/daughter is hot (to me). If its not an incest harem, I am less into the girl-on-girl only shit. But that would be TOO in depth for tags. So I cant narrow it down that much without just making a fucking mess.
When I say "flashback" I mean any scene that shows a Li fucking some dude before the mc meets her, those are flashback scenes.... and they are ntr to the player as I said (because the LI's are for the players so they are getting cucked), to the mc is not but that is the whole reason of technicalities.
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But by your definition, we would have to view every incest game where the MC likes his mother kinda like NTR skippable. It happens, you just dont see it.When I say "flashback" I mean any scene that shows a Li fucking some dude before the mc meets her, those are flashback scenes.... and they are ntr to the player as I said (because the LI's are for the players so they are getting cucked), to the mc is not but that is the whole reason of technicalities.
A LI is a LI the moment the game start, they are defined the moment the dev starts the game.
Anyway, pointless to debate about this further because we won't see eye to eye on this
If the dev shows the mom getting fucked by the dad to the player when the game start or is hinted in the text they are still having sex.... yeah it is ntr to the player because you are showing a LI he will be able to romance getting fucked by someone else, ( you are getting cucked as the player). (The main problem here is MC vs player)
But what would we use as a tag to define that. Blanket tags are great but I understand what your saying so what kind of tag would we use? I know as a player I do not want to see those and would like to be warned in advance. It would be great if devs just plain and simply didn't put those scenes in but many just dont get it the way you or I do. they see it as the MC no caring so why should the player. Example Lukes Way and the Gia mess the dev brought in. The mom was literally NTRing the mc originally. Telling Gia not to listen to him and doing it anyway. The mc was like oh well ok??? Player sitting there saying WTF lmao.If the dev shows the mom getting fucked by the dad to the player when the game start or is hinted in the text they are still having sex.... yeah it is ntr to the player because you are showing a LI he will be able to romance getting fucked by someone else, ( you are getting cucked as the player). (The main problem here is MC vs player)
the player will feel like he is getting cucked.......etc
Dunno how to explain it further without sounding aggressive or imposing my view since I'm always very direct when I write and it may sound even a bit offensive .
When you make a game, you must know who are the girls the mc will romance, at that moment you already know who are the lis.... as for the players the moment you tell them is incest or who they can romance they will know.
In most, if not all games you already know the moment you start the game, usually said by the devs since many do custom renders.
This is the problem. Just because it is kinda like NTR, does not mean we should be using the same word. I have had this discussion with LOTS of anti-NTR people and the closest I have been able to come up with that fits is "unwanted content" but since some people like that, I am leaning towards "Possible Unwanted Content". Shit that a decent percent of people would not want to see. I am taking feedback from this thread to build out a list of new/altered tags and their definitions and that is what I have it labelled as for now (until I can find a better term).
Just because the player feels like that does not make it true. I totally get what you are saying. I am just trying to say that facts matter more than feelings for something like a tag. At least in my opinion. I agree the content IS BAD for most people (myself included). I just do not agree that calling it by an incorrect name is helping us. It hurts us in the long run because then we all look like idiots who just scream NTR anything we dont like something because we cant think of something to call it.If the dev shows the mom getting fucked by the dad to the player when the game start or is hinted in the text they are still having sex.... yeah it is ntr to the player because you are showing a LI he will be able to romance getting fucked by someone else, ( you are getting cucked as the player). (The main problem here is MC vs player)
the player will feel like he is getting cucked.......etc
Dunno how to explain it further without sounding aggressive or imposing my view since I'm always very direct when I write and it may sound even a bit offensive .
When you make a game, you must know who are the girls the mc will romance, at that moment you already know who are the lis.... as for the players the moment you tell them is incest or who they can romance they will know.
In most, if not all games you already know the moment you start the game, usually said by the devs since many do custom renders.
"sex with others" since we can't agree on technicalities and whatnot, just add that tag and add it to games that show a li having sex with someone else that is not the mc.
This is basically what I am doing, but I want to to include a few more things, so the name is more broad. If you get the tag, you get to explain why so the possible players can make a better decision.
