discussion [Site News] Upcoming Members+ & LewdCoins System Changes

[nope69]

I think the toughest thing is just the consistency. If your on here a lot then you ride through the waves and you likely build up enough coin over that time to be able to handle the times you end up on the bad side of change. For those of us who come on here every few weeks or a bit more sparesely because of life, it becomes a hot mess. I've contributed to game threads, I've posted about issues, and clarified where a game thread needs cleanup. I'm just not on here all the time and I have tried to avoid gaming the system. It feels like every time I come on the economy has changed a lot again, I'm at risk of losing certain privalges that I've secured under previous rules, and potentially had some of the small amount of currency I have be either lost or diminished through a conversion to whatever the current economy is. Honestly it feels like being in a third world country where every few years the economy tanks and the government just knocks a few more zeroes off the notes.

 

[Darkrift411]

I agree that a system needs to be in place. But... I also agree that none of them seem to be working well. But ive seen "other" sites. And I can tell their system is easy to game also. Just... prob takes a little longer. The "make 10 meaningful posts" all end up just being a person spamming useless short stories/etc in a "how would you handle this situation" thread. I mostly just made shit up. I spewed shit through my fingertips for like 45 minutes. It was a pain in the ass, but... I was trying to download some mysterious daz asset for a dev I was working with (junior clothing with some not-so-trash stuff that was better than what was on render-state at the time, which... wasnt even there, so my 45 minutes wasted felt really shitty after, but... I digress).

Anyways, I get the need for the "wall". But I feel like the changes you make are borderline useless for anything else. The limits you put on earning them hurt the people who are already past the "wall", which makes the system useless to them. There just arent enough badges and userbar pimping you can offer. Unless it is the people who just like to watch that value grow for no reason. I was using the vault for a few weeks, but then you ended up nerfing it so bad it wasnt worth the 3 minutes a day to go do it. And I get it... you had to. For users who were paying for access past the wall monthly, they could earn a decent amount and just invest it and keep paying off the fee. But for anyone with perm M+, it had no point that I could see. Unless you want to get into these AI art threads I have heard about that hold no interest for me.

What if... you made it so that earning the coins was only harshly limited for people without forever M+? Because for those people, it wouldn't matter.

I took a look at the mining setup... sounded kinda cool, maybe. Until I looked deeper. Not sure if its even actually active or not, but.. the 2nd rig would take 333 days to pay off. Assuming it didnt break. I don't understand the break mechanics, but I saw that it can. If it breaks, even longer. And then I noticed the pools have diff rates. So that value could even be higher. And the highest rig which is only avail for prem members actually seemed to pay less.
Ignore the above. I think I mathed wrong. I was breaking down the values with good ole' GPT and it said 333 hours, not days.

That was just something I noticed when I went to take a look at the vault (which you said was open for a few days in this OP, hence the reason I am here in the first place) and it says it is in maint mode. I was going to see if it was still not worth the time messing with it. Although, technically, it wouldnt be anyways since I don't have anything I would want to buy with it.

And since nope69 posted while I was typing this, they reminded me of another suggestion I had when reading the Op. What about... a weekly M+? Make it like 33% or 40% of the monthly. But lots of members, wont sit here every day for a whole month. Many like me will come check a site like this once a week or maybe even less frequently. This lets them spend a bit less but get less time in there.

EDIT: Adding more info about the mining thing. This is from GPT when I asked it to confirm my quick mental math (which was wrong).

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[dohrminoo]

So basically the already pain-in-the-ass overcomplicated systems will get even more complicated and annoying, let's see how this pans out.

 

[Darkrift411]

I dont fucking know why I want to try this mining shit. I don't really have anything to spend the coins on. But... I do. I just know it will bite me in the ass with some fine print or backend function I am not aware of yet. I just found the page that showed the max daily limit. And I can't tell if you have to pull your coins out every day or not. That was a big deal-breaker with the vault for the low amount I was making from it.

Then again... I was the guy that wrote javascript browser extensions to play cookie clickers for him since clicking was too much work.

 

[jbk304]

I have some constructive feedback. I've been with the site for some time. And seen many many site changes. While I'm sure the admins of the site want a flourishing active high engagement user base, I think we need to also keep in mind what drives most of the userbase to this site. It's to see a list of games and click on the download links. I have a feeling the site metrics shows this, maybe I'm wrong. My guess is the engagement metrics show most users don't post comments. And only do to get coins needed to unlock site sections. Which is why there are a lot of low engagement posts. Posts just to get a coin or two. I don't see it being a problem that the permanent unlock option is a low bar to reach.

I think having a gate for some sections of this site is a smart thing and should continue. For the main reasons the admins list. With a focus on security of the site. Reality is Admins are taking a huge risk with some of the content.

Also I think the Admins should stay away from any Donations = Coins = Site sections unlock. That can quickly get admins into huge legal issues with "selling illegal material" type actively. But I do understand that sites cost money to run.

"500 LewdCoins / activity-earned credits = 30 days of Members+" This sounds like a recurring subscription. You'll run into the same problem with crap posts just to get activity credits to get the next months sub.

Final thoughts: I think having a lack of posts is better than 1000 crap posts farming coins.

 

[Mr.LewdRim]

Hurray goodbye Activity Coin, long live Lewd Coin! That is a start in the right direction to make things less confusing that is for sure.

 

[Oakbender]

at least it looks like i am changing the site for the better, case in point the forced thread addon rewrite.

Have to say, I do like that it no longer forces people into the thread disrupting what they were currently doing and now just brings up a notification in the bottom right corner.

This was a good change

Post automatically merged: Today at 4:29 AM

I have some constructive feedback. I've been with the site for some time. And seen many many site changes. While I'm sure the admins of the site want a flourishing active high engagement user base, I think we need to also keep in mind what drives most of the userbase to this site. It's to see a list of games and click on the download links. I have a feeling the site metrics shows this, maybe I'm wrong. My guess is the engagement metrics show most users don't post comments. And only do to get coins needed to unlock site sections. Which is why there are a lot of low engagement posts. Posts just to get a coin or two. I don't see it being a problem that the permanent unlock option is a low bar to reach.

I think having a gate for some sections of this site is a smart thing and should continue. For the main reasons the admins list. With a focus on security of the site. Reality is Admins are taking a huge risk with some of the content.

Also I think the Admins should stay away from any Donations = Coins = Site sections unlock. That can quickly get admins into huge legal issues with "selling illegal material" type actively. But I do understand that sites cost money to run.

"500 LewdCoins / activity-earned credits = 30 days of Members+" This sounds like a recurring subscription. You'll run into the same problem with crap posts just to get activity credits to get the next months sub.

Final thoughts: I think having a lack of posts is better than 1000 crap posts farming coins.

I think this is pretty accurate, forcing people to "engage" to retain access is going to cause a large number of people to find the minimum effort needed to do so. This will largely result in low effort posting in some way shape or form, it won't drive meaningful forum engagement in any significant measure compared to the amount of low effort posting it'll cause.

 

[MattShizzle]

I am one of the old timer members with the $20 for life access to the games+ section. On the one hand I'm happy you are still honoring that. On the other hand, I know you have to keep the lights on and pay the bills.

Personally, I would be happy to pay $20 or so per year to keep everything running.

Pay walls are important to keep the trolls and white knights out of the games+ section.

It would also permanently keep out non-problems who are too poor to afford that.

 

[lolteambleach1]

Honestly my biggest problem is that simply there isn't a lot to do in a porn gaming forum. I like to engage in conversation, and I like to give my oppinions when it comes to game design, but the nature of porn games just doesn't give much space to actual interaction, and even IF I posted everything I think about a game, 9/10 times someone already did it first, which just brings nothing to the conversation.

Like, what am I supposed to do? Say "I cummreded " or "the story/graphics/gameplay sucks" in every post I see?

 

[Honuel]

My whole take in all of this conversation on the thread is that I will agree about the site integrity and the intention of keeping out bad actors, white knights, or just problematic users in general. We definitely need user traffic and interaction, so the site has activity. The issue of the Members+ being worked for as a security measure is a good thing, but at the same time, I do agree about the problem of earning it for the sake of the Members+ rank. I know the intention is correct, but the way it is being done at the moment is just creating its own problem.

Here is a possible solution for getting Members+ without the user doing it for the sake of having the currency to buy it

Account Age Rather Than Grinding Coins ( For Silent Lurkers )
It should be based on how many days the user account was made either 1 month or lower if the user is active enough and they can ask a mod/staff if they could pass for getting Members+ rather than grinding coins. I do think this is a win for lurkers that really just want to press download and straight up not interact at all. Again, this is just my idea.

Site Bills and Donations
I will put emphasis that again, donators should be rewarded fairly for the site funding. As a user who just wants to share my work, I love to donate to the site because I know that the content of what I'm posting is not going to be removed by a very necessary ruling telling you that you can't post this kind of content (example: F95Zone). So there should be two ways of getting Members+: the free way and a paid way.

The Complicated Stuff
Regarding the Shop and its function: as a member, I only see the Shop as a way of getting a rank like Members+ as an example. The rest of its functionality is just too complicated for me to even bother to interact with, so I have zero suggestions on what to do here just sharing my point of view.

 

[Matm95]

No permanent members+? I was saving up for permanent, didn't manage it in time.
I'm going to be 100% honest here, if I get locked out of members+ from a lack of activity or LC, then I'm just gone. Other sites offer the same games with fewer requirements.
Mining seems to be able to provide the coins automatically, but I haven't looked at the math yet, and its disabled right now.

All in all, I'm cautiously pessimistic.

 

[ErzuzB]

First of all, this seems to put a lot more work onto mods.
Like "Useful game discussion" "Approved game reviews" or "Actual contribution instead of spam"

Public replies: lower reward
Members+ / Prestige replies: modest reward
Games / Games+ replies: higher reward

This will shift the spam from General Discussions into the Game Threads.
The vast majority only posts because they want coins, they don't care what they post, only where it makes the most coins.
The lurker thread is so attractive because it can give tho most coins for the least work, do you really want the game threads to be filled with pointless banter and memes?

Approved game reviews: rewarded after approval
Approved update reports: rewarded
Approved dead link reports: rewarded
Approved fixes / codes / walkthroughs / mirrors: rewarded

You said this is a "more of an auto process", how? You can't auto process quality control.

Game Reviews Will Matter More
I have already been editing the rating/review system so users can earn credits/rewards for leaving reviews on games. However, reviews will not instantly pay out.
Game reviews will be sent to moderator approval before rewards are awarded.

If the review is useful, it can be approved and rewarded. If it is low-effort spam, it will not be rewarded.

So... do I understand this right and only the approved ones will earn coins and the rest will still stay on?
How does this reduce spam? Everybody will still shoot their shot, even if they won't get coins in the end. You will get meny low effort reviews, which won't help anyone.
Is there at least some sort of indicator that a review was "approved" so that users can see if it's a "good" or "bad" review they are reading?
BTW, be prepared for a shit ton of complains, because on F95zone review moderation is one of the most complained things, and not getting a reward might cause the same.

Update Reports / Dead Links / Fixes Will Be More Important
One of the biggest things I want to improve is game-section maintenance. Users should be rewarded for helping keep game threads useful and updated.
That means rewards may be given for things like:

Is this a first come first serve system? Or will everybody get a reward who reported it?

Reaction Rewards Will Be Limited
Reaction rewards are easy to abuse if they are too generous. Users should not be able to farm rewards by reacting to the same person over and over again.
I’m looking at limiting reaction-based rewards with things like:

Okay, I'll say it out straight as you and most others already know this. This is pretty much only a problem because of threads like the Lurker one.
The amount of likes one gets in other threads is minuscule compared to the Lurker.
Thus it would make more sense to put those limitations only on those kind of threads as it punished every other thread and honest discussion.

I said this many times before, but: Don't take what's going on in the Lurker Thread as the default! The vast majority isn't using it! Don't build your prices and limits around it!

And no, just because a thread reaches a certain size, doesn't make it comparable with what's going on in the Lurker Thread.

• Possible limits on old posts

Why are old posts worth less? This is a punishment for old users.



About temporary Rank Access
I said this before, but this punishes occasional visitors, as many only check in on games a few times every month.
Also you want to reduce spam and have mostly meaningful posts?
Permanent = One time spam posts
Subscription = Recurring monthly spam, because you can't keep posting "meaningful posts" all the time; eventually, you just run out of something to say


Final notes
You can't force engagement, period.
Most don't even want to participate in a forum, they only want their porn and of course they will make meaningless posts, no system will change that without punishing every honest poster. If you give them sections where their posts are worth more, they'll post there.

The more costly the access, the more spam you'll get, including stuff disguised as "meaningful posts" in more valuable sections.
So if you want to reduce that, the price needs to be reasonable.

The first iteration of the credits system worked the best. It was simple enough, the price wasn't to high and only members who used the fast moving Lurker Thread got it in an unreasonable amount of time. Most needed sevaral weeks to get Members+.
It only started to fall apart after Prestige 2 was introduced and it got worse with each rank after that.

 

[Jorund]

...
Account Age Rather Than Grinding Coins ( For Silent Lurkers )
It should be based on how many days the user account was made either 1 month or lower if the user is active enough and they can ask a mod/staff if they could pass for getting Members+ rather than grinding coins. I do think this is a win for lurkers that really just want to press download and straight up not interact at all. Again, this is just my idea.

...

This was one of my concerns when i read about the possibly coming changes, and i like that idea.
It would also be possible to combine it still with activity, make the ammount of earned coins dependent on age of account and coins in possession, logarithmic (? math-classes are a faint memory so sorry if it's not actually correct) so older accounts earn more coins the fewer coins they have so 'old' established lurkers can simply earn coins for renewal with few necessary interactions.

Because you want to limit spam, and also want to drive activity up by making it necessary to renew m+ ... you KNOW what you'll get, right? Spam ... always spam. No matter how many rules you come up with, how clever it will be to sort out spam, it's the rule of games that applies here: players will find a way to get where you don't want them to get, and unless you make a hard paywall you'll never get rid of spam completely, you can only try to limit it.

 

[ErzuzB]

It's a soft paywall because it can be bypassed with a little effort

Its also a soft paywall, if a system is so cumbersome/complicated or tedious that it basically pushes users to pay instead, because the wall is so high that it's not reasonable to overcome doing the free way.

Hurray goodbye Activity Coin, long live Lewd Coin! That is a start in the right direction to make things less confusing that is for sure.

More like "Welcome back, Lewd Coin" as it was called that in the very beginning and only got it's name change after several different coins got implemented.

Account Age Rather Than Grinding Coins ( For Silent Lurkers )
It should be based on how many days the user account was made either 1 month or lower if the user is active enough and they can ask a mod/staff if they could pass for getting Members+ rather than grinding coins. I do think this is a win for lurkers that really just want to press download and straight up not interact at all. Again, this is just my idea.

A true lurker wouldn't message a mod.
Also everybody would try that, since it's easier to do instead the regular way. And this would be, yet again, more work for mods.

Another way would be adding a "Silent Lurker Members+" rank, which is cheaper and has a further prerequisite of being a member for a long time (maybe half a year?), but has some strong limitations, like you are able to visit Members+ content, but you can't post or react in Members+ areas. You are a Silent Lurker after all.
If you want o participate in the + forum, you'd need to get Members+ the default way.

But dunno if adding more ranks is the best thing to do.

 

[Matm95]

This was one of my concerns when i read about the possibly coming changes, and i like that idea.
It would also be possible to combine it still with activity, make the ammount of earned coins dependent on age of account and coins in possession, logarithmic (? math-classes are a faint memory so sorry if it's not actually correct) so older accounts earn more coins the fewer coins they have so 'old' established lurkers can simply earn coins for renewal with few necessary interactions.
Because you want to limit spam, and also want to drive activity up by making it necessary to renew m+ ... you KNOW what you'll get, right? Spam ... always spam. No matter how many rules you come up with, how clever it will be to sort out spam, it's the rule of games that applies here: players will find a way to get where you don't want them to get, and unless you make a hard paywall you'll never get rid of spam completely, you can only try to limit it.

Yeah, but "high quality" spam makes the boards seem more active! Look at the lurker thread with it's multiple thousind pages of nothing. There's a guy just posting "its mecha monday" everyday, how would you live without important activity like that?

Post automatically merged: Today at 6:17 AM

Its also a soft paywall, if a system is so cumbersome/complicated or tedious that it basically pushes users to pay instead, because the wall is so high that it's not reasonable to overcome doing the free way.


More like "Welcome back, Lewd Coin" as it was called that in the very beginning and only got it's name change after several different coins got implemented.


A true lurker wouldn't message a mod.
Also everybody would try that, since it's easier to do instead the regular way. And this would be, yet again, more work for mods.

Another way would be adding a "Silent Lurker Members+" rank, which is cheaper and has a further prerequisite of being a member for a long time (maybe half a year?), but has some strong limitations, like you are able to visit Members+ content, but you can't post or react in Members+ areas. You are a Silent Lurker after all.
If you want o participate in the + forum, you'd need to get Members+ the default way.

But dunno if adding more ranks is the best thing to do.

Its not a paywall, it's a "find another site" wall.

 

[MMMLJ0]

I am sorry, but would the member+ rank I have be taken too? Idk there were different types of it. The coins and systems here are a bit too confusing for me

 

[Peter]

Its also a soft paywall, if a system is so cumbersome/complicated or tedious that it basically pushes users to pay instead, because the wall is so high that it's not reasonable to overcome doing the free way.

I am fully aware of that fact, and we know why it is that way, what purpose it serves, what could happen in the worst-case scenario, and - as history shows - what will indeed happen.

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I always felt playing the game was forced, so I decided to make a small donation to skip it, but as you know, the prize was revoked.
I understand both sides. People are understandably upset about losing access, but it's also riskier for the site owners. They could have been more open about the risks and the possibility that content might not always be available but it's a complex topic with no easy answer.

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And that’s another reason why this “game” exists.
Unfortunately, the stakes are just as real as the losses - you’re playing with real money, not game chips.
So if you take the easy way out and cut corners because you’d rather spend your time on more important things than waste it collecting some nonsense, it can ultimately lead to financial losses for one person while another profits from it.
You’re not the only one this has happened to, and you won’t be the last, as long as this “game” is being played.

Simple answer:
Anyone who cheats at a game gets shot.
At least that's how it was in the Wild West, but they say times have changed since then.

More like "Welcome back, Lewd Coin" as it was called that in the very beginning and only got it's name change after several different coins got implemented.

Another way would be adding a "Silent Lurker Members+" rank, which is cheaper and has a further prerequisite of being a member for a long time (maybe half a year?), but has some strong limitations, like you are able to visit Members+ content, but you can't post or react in Members+ areas. You are a Silent Lurker after all.
If you want o participate in the + forum, you'd need to get Members+ the default way.

But dunno if adding more ranks is the best thing to do.

 

[slaveofpeon]

I don't see this as a paywall at all. Its no different than games that offer a "booster/level/resource pack" in game, even though you can unlock the same thing by doing the intended process in game. If anything, this would be closer to a P2W microtransaction.

Honestly, when it comes to forum locks and restricting trolls and other garbage from accessing things to harass the site with, its a hard balance to find AND maintain. One system might work on a site like this, but utterly fail on something like f95 or ATF. The IRL money option is a good choice for whales who have the money but no time, the interaction goal is good because it prevents randos from trashing the place easily, and both restrict those undesirables who want the site to fall by using the sunk cost fallacy. Why would some troll spend the time and effort, or money to attempt to access harder to reach areas? I know I wouldn't.

The only real issue I have is that this is another change coming, nothing is set in stone yet, and the program needs to be balanced well. Personally, (and this is only my uneducated opinion admins so please don't take this wrong if i am wrong somewhere about your plans), I would keep things open for the week like planned, bring back the original method for accessing the locked areas with a mass notice stating the new method will occur in a week or two (give a solid date for the changeover) and allow any last minute point buyers to grab whatever they wanted. That way its enough that those who were close to the limit have a deadline and don't feel left out and butt hurt about the change, but allowing newer folk to start aiming for the new goals.


Also, if any of that was covered previously in a post, my brain isnt working atm, as im running on hour 31 without sleep. so forgive please. lol.

 

[cuntsly]

So, basically, i'm not allowed to be a lurker, who occasionally comments here and there anymore? I have to interact with users, even if I have other things I'd rather be doing with my time and life?

I'd rather have the Lurker Member+ and not be allowed to comment anywhere, as well as have limitations, than be forced to interact on a regular basis on a site I primarily use to gain access to content. no offense to anyone here, but idgaf about any of your opinions on anything, nor do I care to bond over our "shared degen interests". I come to get the thing I want, check on updates of the newest games, hear about what's going on with devs I cannot financially support at the moment, then get out. That's it. I don't fuck with anyone. I don't mess with anyone. I'm not being a menace or bothering anyone. On the rare occasion, I'll make a sarcastic comment, or chime in with something on a specific subject I consider to be mildly interesting. Punishing me and others users like me, because of a few bad actors and trolls, is unfair, and unfortunately, you're gonna kill your memberbase with this.

Cuz all I'm getting from this is that, unless I force myself to interact with and become the terminally online trash that sits on here every day commenting, and attracting their attention simply for making a comment on something I found mildly interesting, I have absolutely no right to access the Members+ area. I have absolutely nothing intellectual to give here. I just come for the porn.

the whole point of LC existing was because other sites like f95 started to censor and delete the content that we put in Members+. the solution was to create a site that primarily held the Members+ stuff. yes that put the site in a less-than-favorable position full of a lot of risk, but that's what comes with the territory of the content.

But NOW you're putting yourself in the position where the natural evolution will eventually lead to the same crossroads as F95: get rid of Members+ because it causes too much trouble, and attracts the wrong type of attention, or close LC, cuz no one comes here for the content that already exists on F95 and other sites.
You may as well put the members+ content behind a paywall. wait a second? you did! and I paid to get Members+! and It's still gonna get locked behind ANOTHER paywall, this time where the payment is required regular activity...

WTF is happening anymore? There is absolutely nothing you can do to fight the bad actors that won't affect the regular good users, cuz there's no limit to the petty vindictiveness of trolls and their stupidity! how do you spend ANY time online and not learn this?

 

[yuhxfd]

So does that mean the Member+ status I got a year ago is about to expire?