discussion Incest Games Banned on Steam

[kuraiken]

You wrote all the shit and still ignore that there are free games and people like me out there who create games for free. You're the type who contributes nothing and doesn't do anything meaningful. Like they saying goes "Actions speak louder than words".

Sorry, but I only briefly glanced at those threads and your games seem to be minimum effort shovelware games that have little effort put in.
You cannot even begin to compare this to games like "Being A DIK" or "Pale Carnations" or "City of Broken Dreamers".
Those games cannot be made in your spare time for free.

The reason you won't see high quality games that commit to incest themes is because they literally cannot be made by people that don't have enough money to live without earning anything.
It's ungrateful and entitled for you to demand people should make high quality incest games for free and forfeit all income just to "fight against censorship" for you by going broke..

You're assuming being shadow banned caused me to have little motivation to do these projects. When it is in fact the cowards like you who don't do shit to help fight against censorship or better gaming. For me it's like words on deaf ears of gamers, I continue to see gamers being their own worst enemy. From what I've seen and experienced have shown me that I can't help gamers, they've repeatedly allowed and enabled to this shitty state of the video game industry. I've seen entitled and shitty as gamers give me shit, when all I've done was contribute and fight for them. It would not be wrong for me to give up on them and not have any motivation to help them.

And you're literally in your post doing the same thing.
Instead of blaming the censorship that forces people to take measures to ensure they can still earn money...you blame the people for not being willing to just make free games without getting paid.

I still create games for free in my spare time. I'm working on a new engine right now getting a new project underway on my terms. Which again is going to be free and Public Domain.
Which is why I don't need to waste any time further with cucks and cowards like you. Just because you're a cuck doesn't mean everyone else needs to stoop down to your level. Talk is cheap, I would like to see you actually contribute to gaming and fight for the betterment of video games like done for many years.
Your talk is cheap, so shut the fuck up. I'm going to concenctrate on this game engine and build that game instead of wasting my time on you.

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Why on earth would I waste time of my life making games? I've actually programmed games, not just "played around in renpy".
The effort it takes in programming, graphical design and the sheer time comittment to produce quality is so big, that it's not worth it.
A game that isn't just shovelware like your stuff needs months if not a year or two of work, just to reach the level you can publish it at and have people enjoy a couple hours of playtime that can pull them in. And no one will pay for that. Instead you need to keep publishing updates for 6-12 Months until you get maybe 1k-2k per month.
That's less than you get for a minimum wage job - for fulltime work on a quality game.
Why would I do that, if I can earn 5-10k per month doing other stuff I love doing that actually gets me money? Now, not in a couple years.

But hey. I'm actually willing to make a game and prove my skill. But are you willing to pay me 7 grand every month for my time? What's that? No?
Well, in that case, take your entitled ass right out the door.

 

[jkj34]

Sorry, but I only briefly glanced at those threads and your games seem to be minimum effort shovelware games that have little effort put in.
You cannot even begin to compare this to games like "Being A DIK" or "Pale Carnations" or "City of Broken Dreamers".
Those games cannot be made in your spare time for free.

The reason you won't see high quality games that commit to incest themes is because they literally cannot be made by people that don't have enough money to live without earning anything.
It's ungrateful and entitled for you to demand people should make high quality incest games for free and forfeit all income just to "fight against censorship" for you by going broke..

And you're literally in your post doing the same thing.
Instead of blaming the censorship that forces people to take measures to ensure they can still earn money...you blame the people for not being willing to just make free games without getting paid.

Why on earth would I waste time of my life making games? I've actually programmed games, not just "played around in renpy".
The effort it takes in programming, graphical design and the sheer time comittment to produce quality is so big, that it's not worth it.
A game that isn't just shovelware like your stuff needs months if not a year or two of work, just to reach the level you can publish it at and have people enjoy a couple hours of playtime that can pull them in. And no one will pay for that. Instead you need to keep publishing updates for 6-12 Months until you get maybe 1k-2k per month.
That's less than you get for a minimum wage job - for fulltime work on a quality game.
Why would I do that, if I can earn 5-10k per month doing other stuff I love doing that actually gets me money? Now, not in a couple years.

But hey. I'm actually willing to make a game and prove my skill. But are you willing to pay me 7 grand every month for my time? What's that? No?
Well, in that case, take your entitled ass right out the door.

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[enderman118849]

Adult section goes crazy. I will confirm that to death

 

[husko]

yes because of the banks and by the way it's not just steam ichi.oi that is also attacked

 

[planB]

I was under the impression that they were already banned, cause I heard from some devs that tried to update their new game on steam, that they had to modify them to not contain anything regarding incest, underage adultery or other questionable stuff.

 

[Wolflorz]

I hate these times we are living in with a passion. And I hate the people who made these times possible even more.

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[jkj34]

I was under the impression that they were already banned, cause I heard from some devs that tried to update their new game on steam, that they had to modify them to not contain anything regarding incest, underage adultery or other questionable stuff.

what you speak off is devs making them steam safe for sale then have a patch on a site to un censor them.

 

[Deleted member 183428]

Interesting phenomenon that I've noticed is that when the world was a lot more conservative.........it was also a lot more perverse, open to themes like incest, noncon and other things nowadays considered ''extreme'' in porn. And that's why porn from the past is imo much better, more creative freedom.

And when I say the world, I don't mean just the US or the English speaking parts. Italians and Germans have made a bunch of incest themed porn back in the DVD days. That was before my time but those are still available today so I came across. You already know about the Japanese and what they do.

Nowadays the world is more liberal, sex work is being glorified and all of that. People talk about sex openly, even their fetishes. But at the same time, everything is banned, and puritanism is running wild. So much so that they're basically pushing for porn to be banned, like it's not already gimped and restricted to a point where it's a shell of what it could be.

 

[trc450]

The reason you won't see high quality games that commit to incest themes is because they literally cannot be made by people that don't have enough money to live without earning anything.

Why on earth would I waste time of my life making games? I've actually programmed games, not just "played around in renpy".

The effort it takes in programming, graphical design and the sheer time comittment to produce quality is so big, that it's not worth it.

Does that not sound a problem to you? First you mold your views / game to someone else's vision parameters. Then you pay them to keep them in power so you can get money.

Because you want to make one?

You are right it is not worth it, if you are after money and clout. It is easier to make money and hire someone skilled to do it for you.

 

[User_111574]

I don't care, it's not my fetish. Although I can understand those who are outraged by such a decision.
Unfortunately, there is no solution to the situation, even if we send a petition to the UN Security Council.

 

[acewinz]

We might have some respite soon, while it isn't the intended function to save our bacon, the "Banking for all Act" which is making its way through congress is intended to prevent payment providers from discriminating against customers based on pretty much anything (it was primarily aimed at political affiliation I imagine) just as long as the product for sale is legal. If they want to cut out something, they have to cut out everyone I assume. So to prevent the sale of games with themes they don't support, payment processors would have to refuse ALL adult games... and possibly all income from any site with adult content... so no only fans, no porn subs, ETC. This would of course only apply in the US, but that is a big market. There is also of course the delay till it gets finalized and then see how enforcement pans out, but the minute class action lawyers get a chance to make some money, payment processors should fall in line. Even middlemen like steam would potentially be unable to hide behind disclaimers in TOS if they want to have any games with adult content.

 

[kuraiken]

Does that not sound a problem to you? First you mold your views / game to someone else's vision parameters. Then you pay them to keep them in power so you can get money.

Because you want to make one?

You are right it is not worth it, if you are after money and clout. It is easier to make money and hire someone skilled to do it for you.

Of course it's a problem. That's the whole point of my post.
Censorship does not just make games unprofitable, it changes what games will be made.
Incest games, in particular, have already fallen victim to that and the increase in censorship will continue to affect what content developers make.

But the problem isn't the devs. They didn't decide to make incest-patches instead of actual incest-content because it's more fun. It's because it's the only option to even make the game.

It's not a question of clout? And it's not - for incest devs - a question of money in terms of profit. It's a question of money in terms of "will I be able to pay my rent and eat food or will I have to take a main job and spend most of my time on that instead of making a game"?

You cannot make big high quality games for free. There's rent to pay and food to buy. If you spend all time making games for free, you have zero time to make money and end up on the street, homeless.

 

[trc450]

Of course it's a problem. That's the whole point of my post.
Censorship does not just make games unprofitable, it changes what games will be made.
Incest games, in particular, have already fallen victim to that and the increase in censorship will continue to affect what content developers make.

But the problem isn't the devs. They didn't decide to make incest-patches instead of actual incest-content because it's more fun. It's because it's the only option to even make the game.

It's not a question of clout? And it's not - for incest devs - a question of money in terms of profit. It's a question of money in terms of "will I be able to pay my rent and eat food or will I have to take a main job and spend most of my time on that instead of making a game"?

You cannot make big high quality games for free. There's rent to pay and food to buy. If you spend all time making games for free, you have zero time to make money and end up on the street, homeless.

You are right on your points.

However I do think devs and buyers are part of the problem by using services that censor works like patreon / paypal / now even steam, they pull people to these platforms and fund this behaviour.

Only real power a single individual has is how he uses money.

 

[kuraiken]

You are right on your points.

However I do think devs and buyers are part of the problem by using services that censor works like patreon / paypal / now even steam, they pull people to these platforms and fund this behaviour.

Only real power a single individual has is how he uses money.

You're throwing different things together. Patreon, steam, itch.io etc. are platforms. They make money of selling things, so everything that's legal is okay for them. They don't implement limitations and reduce their income because they want to, they do it because they have to.

Paypal, VISA, Mastercard, etc. are payment processors. And unlike the platforms, some of them have very liberal rules that allow them to deny service even if the service itself is legal.
Those are the problem.

Blaming the platforms or the developers is silly. What are they supposed to do? The platforms would have to establish their own payment processor network for that to work. You cannot just do that. You have to get A.) government permission of some sort (e.g. meet a set of regulations and checks) and B.) you have to work together with other banks AND payment processors (like VISA, Mastercard, etc.!)
You cannot just make a payment processor yourself, let alone have banks willing to cooperate with you.

What are the devs to do? Look for other platforms? Which ones? The ones that don't sell anything and have no money?
Any other platform will also have to work with payment processors. And what happens then, is what just happened.

When games were primarily on patreon, not on itch.io or steam, patreon got paypal blocked unless they stopped allowing certain games like loli & incest games. Steam and itch.io were unaffected.
So the developer went to a new platform! They did what you want them to do! And what happened next? The regulations followed and BAM. Itch.io and Steam get hit.
What do you think is going to happen if they move to a new platform?

This cannot be fixed on a developer level or even the platform level. You'd either have to have a VERY powerful company make a payment processor that isn't getting shut down by banks & other payment processors (the only one who could MAYBE pull that off is Steam, and even then it's doubtful), OR you need government regulation that forbids payment processors to block legal service. There is no other way.
This is not a "vote with your wallet" kind of situation.
This is a PAYPAL VOTES WITH YOUR WALLET situation. The payment processors are using your wallets against developers and platforms.

 

[titan33]

i think that anti nsfw group will try to ban GTA 6 like they tried to do to GTA 5

 

[trc450]

You're throwing different things together. Patreon, steam, itch.io etc. are platforms. They make money of selling things, so everything that's legal is okay for them. They don't implement limitations and reduce their income because they want to, they do it because they have to.

Paypal, VISA, Mastercard, etc. are payment processors. And unlike the platforms, some of them have very liberal rules that allow them to deny service even if the service itself is legal.
Those are the problem.

Blaming the platforms or the developers is silly. What are they supposed to do? The platforms would have to establish their own payment processor network for that to work. You cannot just do that. You have to get A.) government permission of some sort (e.g. meet a set of regulations and checks) and B.) you have to work together with other banks AND payment processors (like VISA, Mastercard, etc.!)
You cannot just make a payment processor yourself, let alone have banks willing to cooperate with you.

What are the devs to do? Look for other platforms? Which ones? The ones that don't sell anything and have no money?
Any other platform will also have to work with payment processors. And what happens then, is what just happened.

When games were primarily on patreon, not on itch.io or steam, patreon got paypal blocked unless they stopped allowing certain games like loli & incest games. Steam and itch.io were unaffected.
So the developer went to a new platform! They did what you want them to do! And what happened next? The regulations followed and BAM. Itch.io and Steam get hit.
What do you think is going to happen if they move to a new platform?

This is not a "vote with your wallet" kind of situation.
This is a PAYPAL VOTES WITH YOUR WALLET situation. The payment processors are using your wallets against developers and platforms.

Platforms don't have to, they are given extremely bad choice and a lesser bad choice until they fall in line. Only reason this is possible because visa and master card have such a big market. As a consumer you are still choosing, but we are (as a society) choosing comfort/easy way enabling this by using these services and credit cards instead of supporting those less censorious services.

This is not limited to devs, you can see same pattern in youtube, twitch etc. If you keep up, I'll follow rules from above you won't have anything left in the end. There are choices, just not as profitable ones.

 

[jkj34]

We might have some respite soon, while it isn't the intended function to save our bacon, the "Banking for all Act" which is making its way through congress is intended to prevent payment providers from discriminating against customers based on pretty much anything (it was primarily aimed at political affiliation I imagine) just as long as the product for sale is legal. If they want to cut out something, they have to cut out everyone I assume. So to prevent the sale of games with themes they don't support, payment processors would have to refuse ALL adult games... and possibly all income from any site with adult content... so no only fans, no porn subs, ETC. This would of course only apply in the US, but that is a big market. There is also of course the delay till it gets finalized and then see how enforcement pans out, but the minute class action lawyers get a chance to make some money, payment processors should fall in line. Even middlemen like steam would potentially be unable to hide behind disclaimers in TOS if they want to have any games with adult content.

"s long as the product for sale is legal. If they want to cut out something, they have to cut out everyone I assum"

That is the issue if M games/nsfw content end up being against the law like they are trying with texas were even playboy mags are the same as cocaine charge then that law is pointless.

i think that anti nsfw group will try to ban GTA 6 like they tried to do to GTA 5

Already are right now articles out there same with informants.

 

[kuraiken]

Platforms don't have to, they are given extremely bad choice and a lesser bad choice until they fall in line. Only reason this is possible because visa and master card have such a big market. As a consumer you are still choosing, but we are (as a society) choosing comfort/easy way enabling this by using these services and credit cards instead of supporting those less censorious services.

This is not limited to devs, you can see same pattern in youtube, twitch etc. If you keep up, I'll follow rules from above you won't have anything left in the end. There are choices, just not as profitable ones.

Do you think that your idea of "let's convince everyone not to use credit cards or payment processors" has any chance of working? Even if EVERY video gamer on this planet stopped using ANY payment processor, you'd still have most of humanity using them, including businesses.
"Boycotting" payment processors does not work. There are too many people who use them who do not give a lick about censorship.

Likewise, what are platforms supposed to do? Explain how an online store is supposed to handle monetary transactions without payment processors.
There's a reason every store uses payment processors. If paying is too complicated, people don't shop there. What are they supposed to use instead?
Name a single concrete example.

 

[jkj34]

Do you think that your idea of "let's convince everyone not to use credit cards or payment processors" has any chance of working? Even if EVERY video gamer on this planet stopped using ANY payment processor, you'd still have most of humanity using them, including businesses.
"Boycotting" payment processors does not work. There are too many people who use them who do not give a lick about censorship.

Likewise, what are platforms supposed to do? Explain how an online store is supposed to handle monetary transactions without payment processors.
There's a reason every store uses payment processors. If paying is too complicated, people don't shop there. What are they supposed to use instead?
Name a single concrete example.

Boycotting payment processors is like yourself protecting the environment even though everything can be re used/recelyed the facilities are not there or your area just does not care then you go and protest big oil well the government just removed every major environment protection its the same shit the people with power are the only ones that can change anything but they are so dam old there grandpa perhaps even dad used a horse to get around.

 

[trc450]

Do you think that your idea of "let's convince everyone not to use credit cards or payment processors" has any chance of working? Even if EVERY video gamer on this planet stopped using ANY payment processor, you'd still have most of humanity using them, including businesses.
"Boycotting" payment processors does not work. There are too many people who use them who do not give a lick about censorship.

Likewise, what are platforms supposed to do? Explain how an online store is supposed to handle monetary transactions without payment processors.
There's a reason every store uses payment processors. If paying is too complicated, people don't shop there. What are they supposed to use instead?
Name a single concrete example.

There are a lot of gamers billions and they use CC for many other things than games too. As far as I know mastercard and paypal still have to answer to investors.
There are options like buying steam wallet credit locally and banktransfer by proxy other than visa / mastercard.

I understand convincing people might be impossible, especially in this day and age where line between reality and fiction is blurred, censorship, misinformation, overtly virtual signaling is rampant. It is only going get worse since AI can better process the data, even being conscious of own actions is a good start. At least then there is a chance to change habits for better.