discussion why do no-religious american boys get circumcised

[maximus]

A question i've wondered was why do most american boys get circumcised (even non catholics/jews)... Like has anyone ever read the listed health benifits vs downsides and been like.. yeah thats totally what we need for our boy...

listed "health benifits" of circumcision include:

Spoiler: circumcisions questionable benefits

• slight reduction in infant penis infections - which can be solved with oral antibotics at no permanent loss of nerve cells
• slight reduction in adult infections - but for only those who don't have even semi decent hygene practices otherwise no "benifit" at all- again oral antibiotics work as a less invasive alternative
• help prevent phimosis - which afffects less than 1% of boys by 7th grade. Mild cases might need nothing but patience, and there are creams/ointments that are used to solve this for most other cases (yay for less invasive alternatives).
• slight reduction in catching STI's from unprotected sex with women - negated by using condoms, abstanence, or faithful manogomy. Also its contentious as very little went into the initial studies and others trying a parallel study did not get the same results.
• reduction in penis cancer -very weak study advocates this and the strudy outcomes are linked more with adult phimosis than circumcision, this plus low cases (less common than male breast cancer) even among non-circumcised makes this statement contentious and even then mostly negated by having good hygene. An excerpt from american cancer society, "In the US, the risk of penile cancer is low even among uncircumcised men. Men who aren’t circumcised can help lower their risk of penile cancer by practicing good genital hygiene."

As far as I am aware America does it as part of routine procedure that costs the country insurance money ($300 to $400 per boy) paid from all americans for no measurable gain. And the two leading proponuts who set that up back in the early 1900's were Dr. Lewis A. Sayre, and Dr John Henry Kellogg. Dr. Lewis A. Sayre believed that circumcision could cure many types of paralysis and hip-joint disease by “quieting the nervous system.” Dr. Lewis A. Sayre theories were completely debunked later, while John Kelloggs reasoning was for "preventing and curing" masturbation. Kellogg believed that masturbation was a teen defiling themselves and thought removing the foreskin would demotivate a teen boy, its also why he helped create cornflakes as he believed the teens would have less energy from eating it by the end of the evening when they were most prone.

Just to put some perspective on a whole country doing something that was someone's idea of a good punishment before he pushed for all infants to get it-
On the circumcision procedure in Kelloggs' own sanitarium he wrote, "The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases.’"

And yet to modern Americans continue to do this as a matter of course. I get why Isreal and sharia law countries pay for it out of pocket (Religion) but i don't get why americans do.

Men, if a doctor proposed it to you as preventative procedure for yourself as an adult what would you answer?

 

[elfieeven]

Would never have this done for any child of mine.. it's an outdated and barbaric practice.

 

[maximus]

Would never have this done for any child of mine.. it's an outdated and barbaric practice.

yeah, if you can tell by my post i agree with you there... i just wonder why a country that complains wholesale about medical expenses continues to push it as the way to go.

 

[sb112592]

Because circumcision will be recommended by a medical professional and most people will do as a medical professional tells them for the sake of someone else. I know in recent years dentists are recommending that all teens get their wisdom teeth pull despite the fact most people don't have problems with their wisdom teeth.
Also you are looking at it solely on the medical side, of which most people aren't going to look up for any recent breakthroughs, but what about social side if most of your son's peers are circumcised would you want to risk your son being know as the boy with the funny looking dick

 

[AlBetGam]

Probably just habit or inertia for most people. I doubt the majority of those without a particular religious or cultural attachment to circumcision feel very strongly about it one way or the other.

As for your question- no, I definitely would not get circumcised as an adult, but I don't particularly care either way about having been circumcised as an infant.

 

[smiley789]

its simply easier to be circumsized than not theres no real downside to it like i know people who arent have to clean themselves extra to prevent infection and the point of the skin was to protect during a time where we wore no clothes theres not any real reason to keep it other than body purism

 

[maximus]

Because circumcision will be recommended by a medical professional and most people will do as a medical professional tells them for the sake of someone else. I know in recent years dentists are recommending that all teens get their wisdom teeth pull despite the fact most people don't have problems with their wisdom teeth.
Also you are looking at it solely on the medical side, of which most people aren't going to look up for any recent breakthroughs, but what about social side if most of your son's peers are circumcised would you want to risk your son being know as the boy with the funny looking dick

guess thats true. socially as a teen boy this might very well be an issue if everyone else has it done.

 

[duckydoodoo]

According to the vampire in the tv show Preacher, the foreskin is used to make facial creams and such, thats why america promotes it, free ingredients for the industry. I've come to accept this as a reasonable possibility. personally i think its cause the christians assumed everytime boys washed their uncut junk theyd get stimulated and end up wanking off and making god cry.

 

[ErzuzB]

Because that's what they do over there and that's what they will still be doing in the future, it's literally a cultural thing, no other reason than that (apart from the MIC Medical-Industrial-Complex aka make money with patients no matter how expensive and if needed).

People in the States are used that people are being circumcised. If you're not, it's odd for them.


The only real health benefit of it is agains some STDs, but if your country dosn't have big issues with them... it's not important.
Also such things as "good agains infections" is only a thing if you don't wash regularly, but this is even a problem if circumcised.
Urinary tract infection is only a thing in the early stages of life, aka as a newborn. Phimosis is uncommon as it is and thus not a concern for most people, because it should be treated anyway regardless of "is circumcision good or bad".
Is it easier to wash? Yes, probably, but it still gets as dirty but with other things that the foreskin usually keeps away.


TL;DR
So much hearsay and the "cousin of my uncles gardener said..." and "my study against your study"... this is a pointless debate.

EDIT: Also:

Spoiler: Careful politics and religion talk isn't allowed

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[User_48178]

According to the vampire in the tv show Preacher, the foreskin is used to make facial creams and such, thats why america promotes it, free ingredients for the industry. I've come to accept this as a reasonable possibility.

I'd say that's ridiculous, but we use whale vomit for perfumes so I guess it's not actually that outrageous.

 

[Jean55]

Definitely barbaric, and just like a previous post said, we use many things like whale vomit but also some bugs to make dyes for food and many other things we use everyday are often the result of controversy. So it can disappear without real consequences, honestly it's kinda weird to even hear about sometimes, I forgot it was common practice.

 

[Just Another Rando]

It could also be done for health reasons, I know people who have had to have it done because the alternative was permanent penile damage that would render their remaining lives (child/adult) a disaster.

Any other reason made is purely personal choice, be it to help your kid fit in at school or to be part of some culture or religion. None of that matters in reality, because it's just vanity at that point

 

[kemad]

ironically enough (based on where we are lol), i think it was largely a mixture of porn and kellogg's weird fixation on puritan shame that were the most influential in the brainwashing of entire generations into thinking uncircumcised dick is somehow "unhygienic" or "less visually appealing."

there are very, very few instances where having a foreskin causes any negative health effects whatsoever, the worst of which being a situation where the solution is to remove it, which, again: very rare and is usually resolved/healed within months. sure, its not the most fun thing ever, but no medical issue ever is. at least at that point you have a fucking choice. and that's also not to speak of the MYRIAD of complications that come from standard circumcision practices, let alone the rate at which they botch the procedure entirely.

as for hygiene, they make it seem like cleaning under a little flap of skin in the shower is uniquely impossible or something. just look at literally the entire rest of the world to refute that absurd claim.

more than that though, circumcision is genuinely just disgusting and barbaric. it almost universally happens without the consent of the person being affected. a part of you gets violently removed, again, without consent, before you're even able to start absorbing all the new sensations in the world around you. the first dramatic sensation you feel after breathing for the very first time is excruciating bodily pain in a highly sensitive area that "doesn't matter" because you're "too young to remember it." this part of you, btw, contains 10k-20k specialized nerve endings. you really think that amount of physical trauma doesn't result in any negative long-term repercussions? as the op said, the dude who popularized it in the first place, Kellogg, even said that type of trauma was the intent. a punishment for being born. i'd even go as far as to argue that a lot of american men's hyperfixation on their dicks and dick size in youth is almost a direct result of that lingering trauma, but that's not something that's particularly easy to substantiate.

literally the only gender-analogous situation is if we decided clits were "unnecessary" or "unhygienic" or "look weird" because they have hoods and therefore went around snippin em off right when they're born. obviously repulsive, but fine when its a dick for some reason? why?

the only way to meaningfully advocate in favor of mutilation like this is either to appeal to normalcy or to tradition, both being perspectives entirely undeserving of respect imo.

this turned into a way bigger post than i wanted it to lmao

 

[MattShizzle]

Hygiene and health. Though the original intent was to reduce pleasure to prevent masturbation (which didn't and doesn't work.) Another reason is more so they don't get made fun of in the locker room (kids in Jr high/high school have enough to worry about being harassed for by any sort of difference.) And most American women find uncircumcised to be extremely unattractive.

 

[ErzuzB]

literally the only gender-analogous situation is if we decided clits were "unnecessary" or "unhygienic" or "look weird" because they have hoods and therefore went around snippin em off right when they're born. obviously repulsive, but fine when its a dick for some reason? why?

This is actually real thing (female circumcision or more known as female genital mutilation), with similar excuses, but the real reason is that the woman receives no pleasure during sex.
Sometimes the inner labia and in some cases also the outer labia are cut off too.
Luckily the whole practice is forbidden in many countries.

 

[Karamchad]

isnt it because of the jewish culture and the jewish demographic?

 

[Dobermann]

Americans are a lot of things, the smartest/most cultured tool in the shed is not one of their strength, so personal responsibility for personal hygiene is a big problem, having most/a huge chunk of the boys circumcised helps with that. I mean look at the problem with stds as well, or how they use flea powder in the military and the prison system. The list goes on. Tooth care, vaccination, one of the highest child mortality rate in a civilised country, sex education. Put all that together and cutting a boys foreskin off is the least of their problems.

 

[WigglyWorld84]

It is child abuse and rape and mutilation. I cant see it any other way (than the few legitimate medical procedures that call for it like constricting foreskin)

This one triggers me as I am so againt violating children.

I am an uncut American and its like I am in crazy land. Its fucking nuts. Who wanto to hurt a child for no real reason? Who the fuck wants less penis? Who cannot bath regularly, even minimaly? Who doesnt like to masturbate? Foreskin is so much fun! so many little games, like filling it with air and popping it like a fusia flower (more satisfying than bubble wrap popping).

My"pro choice" "my body my choice" sister even cut her three boys... coming from a very anti family (her husband was cut as a baby, so...).

My great grandfather, told my grandfather, who told my father, who told me, " if you cant wash it once a day, you deserve to have part of it cut off."

fuck this disgusting practice and my countrymen who perpetuate this garbage child abuse.

 

[MattShizzle]

Americans are a lot of things, the smartest/most cultured tool in the shed is not one of their strength, so personal responsibility for personal hygiene is a big problem, having most/a huge chunk of the boys circumcised helps with that. I mean look at the problem with stds as well, or how they use flea powder in the military and the prison system. The list goes on. Tooth care, vaccination, one of the highest child mortality rate in a civilised country, sex education. Put all that together and cutting a boys foreskin off is the least of their problems.

Tooth care is because for many of us dental care is an unaffordable luxury. Many don't have insurance, or it only covers cleanings/checkups, etc. Last one I had working had a $1000 deductible and no dentist in the county too it. Also, a lot of dentists wanted to be able to pay off their student loans, so they said no to family dentistry and instead went into cosmetic dentistry, for the rich. Dental care for any actual work is hideously expensive - can cost for a tooth or 2 more than what we make in a month AFTER any insurance.

 

[Dobermann]

Tooth care is because for many of us dental care is an unaffordable luxury. Many don't have insurance, or it only covers cleanings/checkups, etc. Last one I had working had a $1000 deductible and no dentist in the county too it. Also, a lot of dentists wanted to be able to pay off their student loans, so they said no to family dentistry and instead went into cosmetic dentistry, for the rich. Dental care for any actual work is hideously expensive - can cost for a tooth or 2 more than what we make in a month AFTER any insurance.

Yeah, I understand. Universal health care (or better the lack thereof) is definitely a contributing factor in above issues.