A new cleanup update has been posted covering the recent Vault rework, rank changes, policy cleanup, and theme polish.
The goal is to make LC cleaner, easier to understand, and safer for the site going forward.
- Jack Of Blades
Funny thing is in the 80s and 90s(maybe even before) here there was a running joke all over that British people had bad teeth. Nowadays it's more the other way around. Back in the day it was only rednecks/very poor. Now it's more working class and below.
To my mind the issue is parents not making independent, informed AND ethical decisions.
Whatever fringe benefits there might be to the practice; these can never justify mutilating a child.
Well I experienced both ways. Most time of my live I was not circumcised. But of medical reasons I'm now for a couple years.
And I have to say. I miss it. It protects you. You are more sensitive, with it. The first years, I can't wear boxer anymore, cause I had boner everywhere. Now it is desensitized. But that means also desensitized, when you want it to be sensible.
After all nature knows best.
The cleaning part was a thing before sanitary were invented. Just clean it properly.
I do not know if this happens today, but I do ask my parents and the doctors did recommend it.
My mother didn`t buy it thought, so I`m complete, for better or worse.
I don't know why they still do it except perhaps economic factors. However, it is well known when it started and what motivated it: Combating masturbation in children's homes in the 19th century.
By the way, the practice originated in Egypt at the same time as the worst forms of female genital mutilation (cutting off the clitoris and sewing the vagina shut), whose purpose was to make sex miserable for women, especially virgins, in order to prevent them from having sex without being forced. As that mostly prevented sex before marriage and sex outside marriage. Of course only their husband could force them legally.
This partially backfired because men also lost some of their interest. Even for sadists having to force the most sensitive part of their body through this barrier in order to achieve defloration in the wedding night must have been very uncomfortable. Presumably there were many cases in which a young couple stopped in the wedding night once there was enough blood to satisfy the nosy relatives, but before the barrier was gone. And then never had children.
This then motivated trying to make the penis less sensitive. Which was also, and particularly, important in war, when female genital mutilation among the enemies made rape uncomfortable for the soldiers.
Obviously some of this is speculation / educated guessing. But what is in the archeological record is that the earliest evidence of female genital mutilation is from Egypt, and the first evidence of male circumcision is slightly later and also from Egypt.
A self sustaining meme from a different time. If there were true health benefits it would be a global standard.
The truth is the american medical profession does not want to admit to itself that it has been performing medically unnecessary cosmetic surgeries to the genitals of newborns for generations. American society at large simply doesn't care to think about it.
When other societies do such things to their infants it is mutilation but when americans do it then that's just normal.
I didn't even know this was common in the states ??? Usually it was for religious or medical reasons, but that's also a good way to make quick money for clinics....
I've (white American) had this done to me, and I like that I am circumcised. I am not religious, and neither were my parents really, and I never asked why I had it done.
A question i've wondered was why do most american boys get circumcised (even non catholics/jews)... Like has anyone ever read the listed health benifits vs downsides and been like.. yeah thats totally what we need for our boy...
listed "health benifits" of circumcision include:
slight reduction in infant penis infections - which can be solved with oral antibotics at no permanent loss of nerve cells
slight reduction in adult infections - but for only those who don't have even semi decent hygene practices otherwise no "benifit" at all- again oral antibiotics work as a less invasive alternative
help prevent phimosis - which afffects less than 1% of boys by 7th grade. Mild cases might need nothing but patience, and there are creams/ointments that are used to solve this for most other cases (yay for less invasive alternatives).
slight reduction in catching STI's from unprotected sex with women - negated by using condoms, abstanence, or faithful manogomy. Also its contentious as very little went into the initial studies and others trying a parallel study did not get the same results.
reduction in penis cancer -very weak study advocates this and the strudy outcomes are linked more with adult phimosis than circumcision, this plus low cases (less common than male breast cancer) even among non-circumcised makes this statement contentious and even then mostly negated by having good hygene. An excerpt from american cancer society, "In the US, the risk of penile cancer is low even among uncircumcised men. Men who aren’t circumcised can help lower their risk of penile cancer by practicing good genital hygiene."
As far as I am aware America does it as part of routine procedure that costs the country insurance money ($300 to $400 per boy) paid from all americans for no measurable gain. And the two leading proponuts who set that up back in the early 1900's were Dr. Lewis A. Sayre, and Dr John Henry Kellogg. Dr. Lewis A. Sayre believed that circumcision could cure many types of paralysis and hip-joint disease by “quieting the nervous system.” Dr. Lewis A. Sayre theories were completely debunked later, while John Kelloggs reasoning was for "preventing and curing" masturbation. Kellogg believed that masturbation was a teen defiling themselves and thought removing the foreskin would demotivate a teen boy, its also why he helped create cornflakes as he believed the teens would have less energy from eating it by the end of the evening when they were most prone.
Just to put some perspective on a whole country doing something that was someone's idea of a good punishment before he pushed for all infants to get it-
On the circumcision procedure in Kelloggs' own sanitarium he wrote, "The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases.’"
And yet to modern Americans continue to do this as a matter of course. I get why Isreal and sharia law countries pay for it out of pocket (Religion) but i don't get why americans do.
Men, if a doctor proposed it to you as preventative procedure for yourself as an adult what would you answer?
Biology and medical science were a big part of my degrees. Much of the benefit analysis/research is presumptuous.
The simple answer is, sociocultural. It's seen as normal and therefore popular. There are some really odd practices around the world and many of them don't seem to have any real benefit or advantage.
Tooth care is because for many of us dental care is an unaffordable luxury. Many don't have insurance, or it only covers cleanings/checkups, etc. Last one I had working had a $1000 deductible and no dentist in the county too it. Also, a lot of dentists wanted to be able to pay off their student loans, so they said no to family dentistry and instead went into cosmetic dentistry, for the rich. Dental care for any actual work is hideously expensive - can cost for a tooth or 2 more than what we make in a month AFTER any insurance.
In the States, dental organizations fight hard to keep themselves separate from medical insurance. Dental, last time I checked, is pretty low, but it doesn't cover a lot. Mostly cleaning and a few fillings here and there. Braces are almost never covered. Really crappy.
From what i hear, it's peer pressure on the parents. In one documentary i saw, mother basically pressured her husband to agree with circumcision for their kid, because she was worried that no woman would want uncircumcised guy.
