discussion What would you want in a VN tool?

[teh_names_z]

If one were to make a game engine specifically for visual novels... what would you want from this system? I checked out all the big ones, and found them lacking, but I don't want to influence any ideas.. please post ideas/desires.

 

[MicoJive]

I would want Renpy.

Lightweight and easy to run. Easy to mod games. And easy to drop universal mods when someone doesnt already have one.

Frankly if a game pops up that isn't in Renpy it has to look really, really, good for me to give it a shot.

 

[Mr.LewdRim]

I would want Renpy.

Lightweight and easy to run. Easy to mod games. And easy to drop universal mods when someone doesnt already have one.

Frankly if a game pops up that isn't in Renpy it has to look really, really, good for me to give it a shot.

I am kinda the opposite here Renpy games are all the same and very few people are good enough writers to carry such a game and become just spamming my lmb to get to the next render...

 

[MicoJive]

I am kinda the opposite here Renpy games are all the same and very few people are good enough writers to carry such a game and become just spamming my lmb to get to the next render...

To each there own, but I cannot think of a single "gameplay" mechanic in any adult VN that added to the experience imo.

Renpy is obviously limiting in what its capable of, you are never going to get a witcher or mass effect experience out of it. But thats not what I'm looking for in a porn game either. If I am in the mood for that kind of stuff there are thousands of adult mods to fill that void.

Imo there hasn't been a dev yet that was able to make "gameplay" feel good and purposeful in an adult game, and I don't think that is because of a lack of engine.

 

[Shawnchapp]

If one were to make a game engine specifically for visual novels... what would you want from this system? I checked out all the big ones, and found them lacking, but I don't want to influence any ideas.. please post ideas/desires.

For VNs?

Ren'py.....

hell is see devs using unity but it minics ren'py UI and everything i'm just like like "Why not just use ren'py at that point......

it literally has everything you need and easy to use for anything you want from a Visual novel standpoint.. i can't think of single feature you would need from anther software.....

 

[teh_names_z]

For VNs?

Ren'py.....

hell is see devs using unity but it minics ren'py UI and everything i'm just like like "Why not just use ren'py at that point......

it literally has everything you need and easy to use for anything you want from a Visual novel standpoint.. i can't think of single feature you would need from anther software.....

I understand, I know Renpy is pretty big, so is SugarCube, and Twine, but what is lacking in these tools?

For example, I think Renpy is difficult for artists with no coding experience. It's difficult to start a project, and make a simple VN, it's intimidating at the very least. I also think the way you modify a scene, add characters, etc, isn't very intuitive using the GUI

I think Renpy works very well because it comes out of the box with some pretty vital features, like 'undo/back' and save/load just working, etc. I def. think those are 'minimal requirements' now a days, though some games may want to remove/reduce that a bit.

But I'm looking for new ideas, I'm ok with 'Twine has X, Renpy has Y, I want both together' type ideas too

 

[Darvahn]

If we are talking about ideals, um, sure. Something open-source, with a relatively low entry barrier, intuitive and straightforward UI/UX, easy cross-platform export, semi/automated asset management... etc. Perhaps one that handles 3D scenes natively rather than pre-rendered images (this would be a massive shift as far as engines go), with cinematic tools / interactive scene navigation.

Still, I'd agree, Ren'Py is already pretty good if the goal is a visual novel.
I think it would have to be something that goes beyond the approach of a VN in the strict sense (but with VNs still being its focus), one that begins to blend in with other genres thru it's natively supported mechanics and whatnot. Even better if were modular - wouldn't it be great to have the option to, say, slap an "inventory module" to your VN easily on the engine if you wanted to go thru that route along the way?

 

[teh_names_z]

If we are talking about ideals, um, sure. Something open-source, with a relatively low entry barrier, intuitive and straightforward UI/UX, easy cross-platform export, semi/automated asset management... etc. Perhaps one that handles 3D scenes natively rather than pre-rendered images (this would be a massive shift as far as engines go), with cinematic tools / interactive scene navigation.

Still, I'd agree, Ren'Py is already pretty good if the goal is a visual novel.
I think it would have to be something that goes beyond the approach of a VN in the strict sense (but with VNs still being its focus), one that begins to blend in with other genres thru it's natively supported mechanics and whatnot. Even better if were modular - wouldn't it be great to have the option to, say, slap an "inventory module" to your VN easily on the engine if you wanted to go thru that route along the way?

So... for open source, how is javascript? The idea being, anyone can make plugins if they want to, but the engine should have most of what they want already.

Cross platform, my plan was HTML/JS engine, running from an index.html file, or game.html file, no need to run a dubious .exe.

3d scenes.. that is quite heavy, and won't look as nice as rendered scenes... but worth thinking about.

When you say cinematic tools, what are those like?

But yeah, your 'module' idea is how I'm approaching it, I've done it before.. Plug in a puzzle here, a maze there, map, I've done similar, at different companies.

 

[Shawnchapp]

I understand, I know Renpy is pretty big, so is SugarCube, and Twine, but what is lacking in these tools?

For example, I think Renpy is difficult for artists with no coding experience. It's difficult to start a project, and make a simple VN, it's intimidating at the very least. I also think the way you modify a scene, add characters, etc, isn't very intuitive using the GUI

I think Renpy works very well because it comes out of the box with some pretty vital features, like 'undo/back' and save/load just working, etc. I def. think those are 'minimal requirements' now a days, though some games may want to remove/reduce that a bit.

But I'm looking for new ideas, I'm ok with 'Twine has X, Renpy has Y, I want both together' type ideas too

Ren'py is the easier learning curve you're going to get when it comes to coding..... nothing compares.... so if they have trouble with ren'py they won't even be able to make a title screen in any other program....

i can promise you no other program just allows

"show image 5" as the "code" and work out of the box...

Ren'py was be made the way it was for people with 0 coding skills to use.

", add characters, etc,"

adding a character can be as simple as

define Character1 = "Mary"

label start:
Character1 "Hi I'm Mary"

(personally i would used default over define as it allows you to freely change it and even have players change names whenever they want

but as i said above if they can't do that simple task they have no hope on using any other program.


"save/load just working, etc. I def. think those are 'minimal requirements' now a days, though some games may want to remove/reduce that a bit."

Ya and some devs do remove those features and you know what always happens? Player bitch and moan, why? cause save/loading is a vital part to us gamers/readers not all of us can wait for a save area we have lifes and things to do. being able to save whenever i want is a must have, its not a "feature" to me its a mandatory function.

I can't speak of other but if the VN doesn't of the basic features i don't even bothering playing it. a crucial part to why i love renpy is cause its has built in accessibility options, which mean i can override nasty/hard to read fonts that devs love to use because it looks "cool" all other software they person would have to code in those function themselve... but if you're already worry about that not being able to understand renpy i have no faither in there skill being able to make a function let alone make a game of any sort beside being AI alop or random unity asset flip games.

 

[teh_names_z]

but if you're already worry about that not being able to understand renpy i have no faither in there skill being able to make a function let alone make a game of any sort beside being AI alop or random unity asset flip games.

I agree most of the case this is true, it's why AI is being disruptive in general, if the game team didn't have a talent to make a decent covert art, noone trusted they could make an entire game, not ai tricks people with decent cover art, but the games are quite horrible because the team just doesn't have what it takes...

But consider it just as a thought exercise, if you could have anything at all in a VN what would it be, type thing... the fact that you know renpy in and out is great, gives me another perspective.

 

[Shawnchapp]

But consider it just as a thought exercise, if you could have anything at all in a VN what would it be, type thing... the fact that you know renpy in and out is great, gives me another perspective.

Can't think of anything i would need, cause ren'py still allows coders to use full python. meaning anything i need i'm able to just code a function for it or add it.

but if i had to pick something maybe add slightly more advance functions to be built in so newer devs could use with just filling in a spots/info without having to know how to setup it proper like a cheat sheet copy/paste kind of thing.. like a built in function for added charaters

So instead of a dev having to do

default m = Character(" Maid", who_color="#51087E", image = "maid")
image side maid = "mod/gui/char/maid.png"

can just have a UI with "Add character" person clicks the button then their prompt with "insert name" then "select colour you like there name to be" followed by "image location"


So just making it even more easier for people to use.

 

[teh_names_z]

So just making it even more easier for people to use.

Oh yeah for sure, this is kind of something I would like from Renpy too, I dabbled with it and found it a lot harder to know where to start than I would have expected since it's so popular.

A little wizard of sorts to walk through how to add things would be cool. Thanks, if you have any more ideas, I'm all ears!