discussion A-T-F Is Closing Down

[koko253]

It's very sad that I've only known this blogger for less than a year.

 

[cippssss]

alighwEWIFE[wigj ignore me, just trying to get coin here wqirVYHNQPMrqr

 

[pearson.smith]

It is a sad day.

 

[CatLewdsAll]

Big sads. RIP

 

[evvi]

They did an awesome job over the years, sadly no king rule forever

 

[LewisCarroll]

AFAIK moderators/admins can look into DMs over there. Trading ** via DM would be risky, people have been reported to law enforcement.

Being able to be honest and open about your thoughts creates a social control net. You get feedback when you stray in dangerous directions, are exposed to differing opinions of people who share your situation. Overall that tends to make things safer. There are places where anti-C ****s meet, I assume the same is true for pro-C. But those are mainly echo chambers. A place where both are tolerated is the only way to expose someone to different points of view and new facts. Which is the only way to actually change someones position. I was involved in discussions that actually converted pro-C people over to anti-C. It isn't easy, but possible. Without the grey zone they would still be convinced acting might actually be ok.
If ** trading happens it's probably in those pro-C places, not on ATF. And even if some limited trade happens, I believe the benefits outweigh that.

Without going too far into the weeds, and as someone in psychology, I will have to disagree. And I think 99% of society would too. Show any normie the media section of A.T.F. and then try to explain how you think it's a place for healthy con- arguments. The argument for 'go to the place where they exist' will unravel pretty fast. I've done a little research on neighboring topics and was heavily dissuaded by my IRB.

Never forget that the true source for all the problem is always politically motivated.
The need of a place like AT.F as the "only" hub for its content shouldn't exist in the first place, but the usual suspects believe pixels have human rights and must be protected.
Unless those pixels are Leon Kenedy as proved AGAIN by the blatant hypocrisy of those filthy scum like IGN's Lincoln Carpenter (4 March 2026) and its article: Stop the clock: Resident Evil Requiem's first sexy Leon mod hit Nexus Mods just 4 days, 11 hours, and 23 minutes after launch
They are the materialization of hypocrisy on the planet, the vilest beings that hinder not only entertainment but every aspect of society.
/watch?v=EZ-YZ26pEak

Well, in this case they undid themselves. This was an internal security problem. They trusted the wrong person.

 

[Chrissy]

Without going too far into the weeds, and as someone in psychology, I will have to disagree. And I think 99% of society would too. Show any normie the media section of A.T.F. and then try to explain how you think it's a place for healthy con- arguments. The argument for 'go to the place where they exist' will unravel pretty fast. I've done a little research on neighboring topics and was heavily dissuaded by my IRB.

The media section is pure fantasy. The place where we can let our desires run free. These desires are part of us, impossible to get rid of. Better to satisfy them using unfeeling, artificially created pixels than living children or pictures of those, wouldn't you agree? I completely understand how a normie will feel seeing these images. I feel the same way towards gay sex. But I don't condemn gay people because of that. I wish normies would extend the same courtesy towards ****s that will never harm any child. Which is most of them.

Anyway, that's besides the point. Our topic here right now is the grey zone, and there are no pictures there for a very good reason.
If you were to read some of the discussions between pro-C and anti-C people you'd realize that there are lots of arguments being exchanged. Most normies should be able to agree with the arguments from the anti-C side. We want the same thing. No child abuse. Period.
But how do we bring these arguments to pro-C ****s? Open forums that welcome both sides are the only way.

 

[LewisCarroll]

I think this is beyond the scope of the OT, but I find it interesting since it really is at the root of many A.T.F.s problems.

The media section is pure fantasy. The place where we can let our desires run free. These desires are part of us, impossible to get rid of.

They can be reduced, controlled and even in a few completely reversed. The key in all therapy is a wiliness to accept help and are willpower to commit 100% to the process. It's called sexual plasticity and it's harder to change in men than women, but not impossible. Women undergo much more sexual plasticity as they mature. Men form much more ridged behaviors. If you can get in before a boy is roughly 16 a lot of behaviors can be altered. After that, it becomes much harder.

Better to satisfy them using unfeeling, artificially created pixels than living children or pictures of those, wouldn't you agree?

That's a fallacious question. AKA the "false-dilemma" or "either or dilemma". Both your choices are incorrect. Avoidance and redirection are the only proven methods of altering behavior.

I completely understand how a normie will feel seeing these images. I feel the same way towards gay sex. But I don't condemn gay people because of that. I wish normies would extend the same courtesy towards ****s that will never harm any child. Which is most of them.

Another fallacy (false equivalency). One is legal, the other is not. Yes, most do not wish to harm, but the distinction is still there. You would not place an animal abuser in charge of a Zoo or a chronic alcoholic as a bartender. Countries and laws not withstanding, the risk factors cannot be minimized.

Anyway, that's besides the point. Our topic here right now is the grey zone, and there are no pictures there for a very good reason.

They have admitted that the gray zone is their biggest headache and were planning to release it as another site altogether under another's control. Don't know much more than that or if it even happened or was happening.

If you were to read some of the discussions between pro-C and anti-C people you'd realize that there are lots of arguments being exchanged. Most normies should be able to agree with the arguments from the anti-C side. We want the same thing. No child abuse. Period.

The mere fact that was occurring goes against most expert reasoning. People base the majority of their decisions on 'feelings', not logic or education. And since feelings are of your personal belief system, any attack on their arguments is an attack on them personally. It devolves into squabbling where little to nothing is accomplished. Jonathan Swift, suggested that it's ineffective to try to change someone's beliefs or opinions if those beliefs were not formed through logical reasoning. Trying to prove someone doesn't 'feel' a particular way is futile and nonconstructive.

But how do we bring these arguments to pro-C ****s? Open forums that welcome both sides are the only way.

No, it is not 'the only way.' Legally, socially, psychologically and logistically it's a really poor idea.

 

[Chrissy]

I think this is beyond the scope of the OT, but I find it interesting since it really is at the root of many A.T.F.s problems.

Maybe this should be split off into its own thread.

They can be reduced, controlled and even in a few completely reversed. The key in all therapy is a wiliness to accept help and are willpower to commit 100% to the process. It's called sexual plasticity and it's harder to change in men than women, but not impossible. Women undergo much more sexual plasticity as they mature. Men form much more ridged behaviors. If you can get in before a boy is roughly 16 a lot of behaviors can be altered. After that, it becomes much harder.

I have never heard of any therapy that actually "cured" ****phila. To my knowledge that's considered as impossible as "curing" homosexuality, at least by professionals.

That's a fallacious question. AKA the "false-dilemma" or "either or dilemma". Both your choices are incorrect. Avoidance and redirection are the only proven methods of altering behavior.

In most cases there is no behavior that needs to be altered. We are quite able to live our life without ever abusing a child or consuming CSAM. And redirection is exactly what consuming lolisho material is for ****philes. The attraction to prepubescent children is impossible to change. Either you demand complete rejection of ones sexuality (ask the catholic church how well that works...) or allow for use of material that has no child involved in the creation process. There is no scientific study that shows that consuming such material increases the abuse risk, but there are studies that indicate the opposite.

Another fallacy (false equivalency). One is legal, the other is not. Yes, most do not wish to harm, but the distinction is still there. You would not place an animal abuser in charge of a Zoo or a chronic alcoholic as a bartender. Countries and laws not withstanding, the risk factors cannot be minimized.

For one, lolisho is legal in many countries. And I'm not talking about actual abusers here, but people who just have the attraction. That is the true false equivalency here, equating the attraction to the act. By your logic, anyone who likes alcohol must never work as a bartender. Would you assume that a man who is sexually attracted to adult women is a potential rapist and must be kept away from women? And especially must never watch adult porn to avoid becoming a rapist? We have the same ability to self control as anyone else. We (anti-C) understand that acting on our attractions will harm those we love.

They have admitted that the gray zone is their biggest headache and were planning to release it as another site altogether under another's control. Don't know much more than that or if it even happened or was happening.

Never heard of that plan while I was there. I understand that what is discussed there may be disgusting to teleiophiles. But no one is forced to read it. And nothing that is said in there is illegal in any way.

The mere fact that was occurring goes against most expert reasoning. People base the majority of their decisions on 'feelings', not logic or education. And since feelings are of your personal belief system, any attack on their arguments is an attack on them personally. It devolves into squabbling where little to nothing is accomplished. Jonathan Swift, suggested that it's ineffective to try to change someone's beliefs or opinions if those beliefs were not formed through logical reasoning. Trying to prove someone doesn't 'feel' a particular way is futile and nonconstructive.

Even if it were futile, that doesn't mean it's harmful. And I can state from personal experience that it's not futile. Just very hard. But some who believed the pro-C side was right have been converted by factual arguments. For that's the difference: there are facts beyond mere belief. It's not just about feelings. Wouldn't you agree that even a single person who is now absolutely opposed to ever abusing a child is worth any effort?

No, it is not 'the only way.' Legally, socially, psychologically and logistically it's a really poor idea.

So how do you intend to present anti-C arguments to pro-C people if there is no place where they can meet and discuss their points of view? Please present a practical alternative.

 

[LewisCarroll]

Maybe this should be split off into its own thread.

You are free to.

I have never heard of any therapy that actually "cured" ****phila. To my knowledge that's considered as impossible as "curing" homosexuality, at least by professionals.

Maybe because in psychology it isn't called "curing", but rather "treating" or "healing" or "management" or "teaching". Curing implies a disease - not a venue for psychology. And yes, there have been many positive outcomes/cases involving paraphilias, sexual dysfunction and identity disorders involving this topic. It isn't something that is openly celebrated, but quietly acknowledged. I had several courses on the subject.

In most cases there is no behavior that needs to be altered. We are quite able to live our life without ever abusing a child or consuming CSAM. And redirection is exactly what consuming lolisho material is for ****philes. The attraction to prepubescent children is impossible to change. Either you demand complete rejection of ones sexuality (ask the catholic church how well that works...) or allow for use of material that has no child involved in the creation process. There is no scientific study that shows that consuming such material increases the abuse risk, but there are studies that indicate the opposite.

The research and expert opinions available do not share that opinion. Perhaps you can show me any research into this that I've missed. Every study I've read or evaluated states avoiding reinforcing behaviors and granting reward systems for not thinking/engaging said habits work best.

For one, lolisho is legal in many countries. And I'm not talking about actual abusers here, but people who just have the attraction. That is the true false equivalency here, equating the attraction to the act. By your logic, anyone who likes alcohol must never work as a bartender. Would you assume that a man who is sexually attracted to adult women is a potential rapist and must be kept away from women? And especially must never watch adult porn to avoid becoming a rapist? We have the same ability to self control as anyone else. We (anti-C) understand that acting on our attractions will harm those we love.

Like I said. Countries and laws not withstanding. And, I have not equated them as the same. I simply said it isn't mentally healthy to consume the marital. If you are think about raping women, perhaps not consuming [legal] torture porn is the better option. If you truly did love these people, then you'd abstain from any material involving them at all, whether legal or illegal. Many can't, because it truly is an addiction based on self gratification not 'love'.

Never heard of that plan while I was there. I understand that what is discussed there may be disgusting to teleiophiles. But no one is forced to read it. And nothing that is said in there is illegal in any way.

It occurred when they had to move servers due to issues with their provider kicking them off.

Even if it were futile, that doesn't mean it's harmful. And I can state from personal experience that it's not futile. Just very hard. But some who believed the pro-C side was right have been converted by factual arguments. For that's the difference: there are facts beyond mere belief. It's not just about feelings. Wouldn't you agree that even a single person who is now absolutely opposed to ever abusing a child is worth any effort?

I'm glad you are dealing with it. Really am. I would not have changed from IT to mental health science if I didn't want to help others. I've always like serving others beginning with joining a military special operational unit.

So how do you intend to present anti-C arguments to pro-C people if there is no place where they can meet and discuss their points of view? Please present a practical alternative.

There we probably see more eye to eye. There are not a lot of direct resources for potential abusers. The number one thing is to identify when something is becoming a problem and go seek counseling and AVOID reinforcing behaviors. Here are some key things to be aware of... (1 = warning sign, 2 = unhealthy, 3+ real psychological issues that should be treated soon.)

• Behavior significantly interferes with daily functioning or relationships.
• Persistent patterns of thoughts, emotions, and actions that are maladaptive, disruptive, and harmful to oneself or others.
• Strong urge to engage in the behavior regularly.
• Needing to increase the frequency or intensity to achieve the same satisfaction.
• Continuing the behavior despite negative consequences in your life.
• Fantasizing about people in your life.
• Physical and or psychological stress when avoiding maladaptive subject material.

More information can be found here [

You must be registered to see links

].

Note: Did you know the worst people to treat or counsel are smarter individuals? It's because they use logic to dissemble a therapists therapy. They can rationalize their behaviors to themselves and present reasons for why they feel or do things.

 

[kaien13]

I just logged into ATF and saw such sad news.

 

[LaunchPdMcQuak]

is Roriwalrus gone as well? Are there any other alternatives besides LC?

 

[jkj34]

is Roriwalrus gone as well? Are there any other alternatives besides LC?

is Roriwalrus gone as well? Are there any other alternatives besides LC?

I have not been able 2 log in for awhile on rar also

For loli content just one more but there also getting website issues.

 

[Aeternamnox]

As a refugee from ATF I will say I am very sad to see it go. I have all the respect for the admin and mod team over there as they did a wonderful job to keep the site going as long as they did. Though I look forward to meeting and interacting with all of you here in the future.

 

[Chrissy]

Maybe because in psychology it isn't called "curing", but rather "treating" or "healing" or "management" or "teaching". Curing implies a disease - not a venue for psychology. And yes, there have been many positive outcomes/cases involving paraphilias, sexual dysfunction and identity disorders involving this topic. It isn't something that is openly celebrated, but quietly acknowledged. I had several courses on the subject.

Ok, curing isn't the right word. But that's what the general public thinks of when therapy is mentioned.
Are there successful treatments of ****phila (or homosexuality, for that matter) that actually turned the patient into a teleiophile (heterosexual)? I very much doubt that. Conversion therapy is rejected as ineffective and harmful by professionals, as far as I know.

The research and expert opinions available do not share that opinion. Perhaps you can show me any research into this that I've missed. Every study I've read or evaluated states avoiding reinforcing behaviors and granting reward systems for not thinking/engaging said habits work best.

But what habits are you talking about? Abusing children? Consuming CSAM? On these topics I'm with you. Otherwise please clarify what you actually mean.
The attraction itself is a different matter. According to ICD-11 that in itself is not a disorder, since it is not harmful to the person or others.

Like I said. Countries and laws not withstanding. And, I have not equated them as the same. I simply said it isn't mentally healthy to consume the marital.

Why? What difference is there compared to any teleiophilic person who consumes similar adult oriented material?
I see none, unless you assume that we have an inherently higher risk of actually exhibiting abusive behaviour. Which you expressly deny. So what is it?

If you are think about raping women, perhaps not consuming [legal] torture porn is the better option.

I completely agree. Same for any ****phile that actually contemplates to act on their desire.
But what about the very many ****philes that absolutely reject that act as harmful and immoral?

If you truly did love these people, then you'd abstain from any material involving them at all, whether legal or illegal. Many can't, because it truly is an addiction based on self gratification not 'love'.

Again, why? What harm does it cause to any child (or me) if I watch lolicon?

It occurred when they had to move servers due to issues with their provider kicking them off.

Well, I guess I wasn't around when that happened.

I'm glad you are dealing with it. Really am. I would not have changed from IT to mental health science if I didn't want to help others. I've always like serving others beginning with joining a military special operational unit.

And I'm not the only one. Anti-C is a common mindset among those that post in the ATF grey zone. Probably the majority, but that's hard to judge.

There we probably see more eye to eye. There are not a lot of direct resources for potential abusers. The number one thing is to identify when something is becoming a problem and go seek counseling and AVOID reinforcing behaviors. Here are some key things to be aware of... (1 = warning sign, 2 = unhealthy, 3+ real psychological issues that should be treated soon.)

• Behavior significantly interferes with daily functioning or relationships.
• Persistent patterns of thoughts, emotions, and actions that are maladaptive, disruptive, and harmful to oneself or others.
• Strong urge to engage in the behavior regularly.
• Needing to increase the frequency or intensity to achieve the same satisfaction.
• Continuing the behavior despite negative consequences in your life.
• Fantasizing about people in your life.
• Physical and or psychological stress when avoiding maladaptive subject material.

More information can be found here [

You must be registered to see links

].

Yes, there are people who should not visit places like ATF (or lewdcorner) because of their existing problems.
But again, most of the people there do not have such problems. Those who do and show indications of that usually get the advice to seek professional help. But that is often easier said than done. In many places such help simply isn't available. For these we try to give advice to the best of our limited ability.
I hope you see that the grey zone actually has real benefits. It is a place where no one needs to hide, where problems can be discussed and possibly dangerous opinions countered by factual arguments.
Of course there are really bad topics that come up in a place like that. Some quite disgusting opinions get voiced. And that's a good thing, for if they don't get voiced, they will also never get countered. As low as the success rate may be, every single one is one less potential abuser.

Note: Did you know the worst people to treat or counsel are smarter individuals? It's because they use logic to dissemble a therapists therapy. They can rationalize their behaviors to themselves and present reasons for why they feel or do things.

I can imagine. I'm of the delusion that I'm not too dumb myself. To get into my thick skull you need hard facts. But I'm also ready to accept that I might be wrong. In natural science, there is no proof, only falsification of your working hypothesis.

 

[Gigi No Gigi]

is Roriwalrus gone as well? Are there any other alternatives besides LC?

't the right word. But that's what the

afaik domain is gone but server is still up. You have to manually change your dns settings to get it to work for now

 

[jkj34]

afaik domain is gone but server is still up. You have to manually change your dns settings to get it to work for now

Well i won't do that networking can be a bitch on the good days and i got 2 much shit over here atm

 

[LewisCarroll]

Ok, curing isn't the right word. But that's what the general public thinks of when therapy is mentioned.
Are there successful treatments of ****phila (or homosexuality, for that matter) that actually turned the patient into a teleiophile (heterosexual)? I very much doubt that. Conversion therapy is rejected as ineffective and harmful by professionals, as far as I know.

Like I said, for men it's much harder than for women, but yes it has been done (look up sexual plasticity). You're going into the weeds however. You're confusing 'natural' with 'normal'. Just because something happens 'naturally' does not make it acceptable or normative. The #1 rule of psychology is if it does harm. And when those things stack up they become 'disorders'. If you're hiding your desires, sneaking around and worry that people will find out then by definicion, you're doing harm to yourself (stressors, consequences, etc.).

But what habits are you talking about? Abusing children? Consuming CSAM? On these topics I'm with you. Otherwise please clarify what you actually mean.
The attraction itself is a different matter. According to ICD-11 that in itself is not a disorder, since it is not harmful to the person or others.

Any material which feeds fantasias & desires connected to paraphilias. The DSM and ICD say MUCH more about the topic than just that. Read below.

Why? What difference is there compared to any teleiophilic person who consumes similar adult oriented material?
I see none, unless you assume that we have an inherently higher risk of actually exhibiting abusive behaviour. Which you expressly deny. So what is it?

Depends on the person, the environment, frequency and type. Just because something is legal does not make it 'healthy'. Again. See below.

I completely agree. Same for any ****phile that actually contemplates to act on their desire.
But what about the very many ****philes that absolutely reject that act as harmful and immoral?

Again... See below.

Again, why? What harm does it cause to any child (or me) if I watch lolicon?

Again... See Below.

Well, I guess I wasn't around when that happened.

Guess not. It's a moot point now.

And I'm not the only one. Anti-C is a common mindset among those that post in the ATF grey zone. Probably the majority, but that's hard to judge.

I'll take your word for it. But, the academic in me questions any anecdotal observation.

Yes, there are people who should not visit places like ATF (or lewdcorner) because of their existing problems.
But again, most of the people there do not have such problems. Those who do and show indications of that usually get the advice to seek professional help. But that is often easier said than done. In many places such help simply isn't available. For these we try to give advice to the best of our limited ability.
I hope you see that the grey zone actually has real benefits. It is a place where no one needs to hide, where problems can be discussed and possibly dangerous opinions countered by factual arguments.
Of course there are really bad topics that come up in a place like that. Some quite disgusting opinions get voiced. And that's a good thing, for if they don't get voiced, they will also never get countered. As low as the success rate may be, every single one is one less potential abuser.

All the previous See Below(s)... The list I gave are indicators of real psychological criteria. If you are worried about being outed, that is usually the 1st warning sign. If you never gain another then GREAT. You're one of the lucky ones. Alone, none are signs of actual psychological disorders. What I'm saying is all the research & experience of thousands of experts is, if you have an addiction it's best avoid triggers. The truth is, no one knows exactly how effective treatment can be ultimately because it's so stigmatized in society. The longest studies were typically on criminals that were caught. That isn't a great pool to work on.

I'm working on a Ren'Py game atm and its on topic. I'm trying to make it into a teaching tool. Erotic (as the bait) and the hook is... well, a secret. Read below***...

I can imagine. I'm of the delusion that I'm not too dumb myself. To get into my thick skull you need hard facts. But I'm also ready to accept that I might be wrong. In natural science, there is no proof, only falsification of your working hypothesis.

Metacognition is the number one sign of true intelligence (not IQ, that's just intelligence). True intelligence is the ability to think about your thinking and being able to see you may be wrong about something. *** It's VERY VERY hard to teach someone that has their guard up. Harder still to convince them their "feelings" are wrong. Sometimes, you need to go to where they live to effect real change. I'm trying to do that with this game. I used to be in IT so picking up Python, Ren'Py, Blender, etc... isn't too hard, but it is very time consuming. Hopefully I can publish it here before summer. I don't want to be another dev that takes a year to put something out. But, I'm already about 8,000 lines of code and 500 images in ... programming is hard. I think some people will hate where the story goes...

 

[Chrissy]

Like I said, for men it's much harder than for women, but yes it has been done (look up sexual plasticity).

A theory about which (at least according to what I found) only two studies have been done. Hardly established fact.
But on conversion therapy I found tons of material all stating that it is essentially bullshit.

You're going into the weeds however. You're confusing 'natural' with 'normal'. Just because something happens 'naturally' does not make it acceptable or normative. The #1 rule of psychology is if it does harm. And when those things stack up they become 'disorders'. If you're hiding your desires, sneaking around and worry that people will find out then by definicion, you're doing harm to yourself (stressors, consequences, etc.).

According to that statement, being gay a few decades ago was also a disorder? Or being black? Anyone belonging to a group that is being persecuted would suffer from a disorder. Are you sure you are a professional?

Any material which feeds fantasias & desires connected to paraphilias. The DSM and ICD say MUCH more about the topic than just that. Read below.

I was asking about which habits you mean, you reply about material???

Depends on the person, the environment, frequency and type. Just because something is legal does not make it 'healthy'. Again. See below.

Again... See below.

Again... See Below.

Guess not. It's a moot point now.

I'll take your word for it. But, the academic in me questions any anecdotal observation.

All the previous See Below(s)... The list I gave are indicators of real psychological criteria.

That list has nothing to do with any of the statements you replied to with "See below". Please be on point with your answers, this seems like you try to avoid things you can't refute.

If you are worried about being outed, that is usually the 1st warning sign.

Really? There are quite objective consequences to being outed as a ****phile. Ample reason to be worried.

If you never gain another then GREAT. You're one of the lucky ones. Alone, none are signs of actual psychological disorders. What I'm saying is all the research & experience of thousands of experts is, if you have an addiction it's best avoid triggers.

****philia is an addiction now? Good to know...

The truth is, no one knows exactly how effective treatment can be ultimately because it's so stigmatized in society.

What kind of treatment? The only kind I know of that is done is to support troubled individuals in avoiding actual abuse or consumption of CSAM.

The longest studies were typically on criminals that were caught. That isn't a great pool to work on.

On that we can agree.

I'm working on a Ren'Py game atm and its on topic. I'm trying to make it into a teaching tool. Erotic (as the bait) and the hook is... well, a secret. Read below***...


Metacognition is the number one sign of true intelligence (not IQ, that's just intelligence). True intelligence is the ability to think about your thinking and being able to see you may be wrong about something.

Thank you.

*** It's VERY VERY hard to teach someone that has their guard up. Harder still to convince them their "feelings" are wrong. Sometimes, you need to go to where they live to effect real change. I'm trying to do that with this game. I used to be in IT so picking up Python, Ren'Py, Blender, etc... isn't too hard, but it is very time consuming. Hopefully I can publish it here before summer. I don't want to be another dev that takes a year to put something out. But, I'm already about 8,000 lines of code and 500 images in ... programming is hard. I think some people will hate where the story goes...

Ah, so you actually do the same thing I try to achieve in the grey zone. Which seems to contradict quite a few of your earlier statements...
I am in IT right now, so I know how hard programming can be. But honestly, 8000 lines of code actually isn't that much... but then, I get paid to do it. That tends to make a difference.
I look forward to trying your game. If you need a beta tester...

 

[LewisCarroll]

A theory about which (at least according to what I found) only two studies have been done. Hardly established fact.
But on conversion therapy I found tons of material all stating that it is essentially bullshit.

When it comes to the social sciences only a tiny handful of theories show direct and consistent causation (types of conditioning for example). Plus, this topic is HIGHLY charged. Whatever you published it will be criticized by some group. There are very talented people that actually have been drummed out because they said (with evidence) certain things. There have been three direct studies and about fifteen to twenty collaborative studies done in anthropology, sociology, psychology and biology. Ex. There are several books on women changing sexual preference later in life. One of the most famous being Mary Shelley. Bring that up to a lesbian and they'll probably tell you she was in denial and was a lesbian all along.

According to that statement, being gay a few decades ago was also a disorder? Or being black? Anyone belonging to a group that is being persecuted would suffer from a disorder. Are you sure you are a professional?

Again, you are using the 'False Equivalence' argument. You are arguing that being gay or black is the same thing. I could list many ways there are not, beginning with Piaget's theory of cognitive development. A more apt comparison is between someone that is unable to consent like being passed-out, blind drunk, unconscious, etc... to a child that is cognitively unable to understand what is occurring.

I was asking about which habits you mean, you reply about material???

I was answering in two parts. One, what is considered consumption (material) and I say anything that induces one to behaviors which lead to the "read below".

That list has nothing to do with any of the statements you replied to with "See below". Please be on point with your answers, this seems like you try to avoid things you can't refute.

I gave a list of warning signs and how many is considered unhealthy. These warning signs are directly connected to your statements. If [someone] is on these forums is engaging in any activity that directly is connected to this topic, it has the possibility of being unhealthy.

Really? There are quite objective consequences to being outed as a ****phile. Ample reason to be worried.

Yes. Because it is socially unacceptable. Psychologically supported. Legally enforced. The mere fact that people still wish to push those boundaries shows a pathological tenancy to do harm to ones self [or others]. Thus, me saying it's considered DSM worthy of note.

****philia is an addiction now? Good to know...

The behavior's associated with it, yes. "Sexual preference" no. Thus, me saying "See blow". The See Below lists warning signs of unhealthy desires.

What kind of treatment? The only kind I know of that is done is to support troubled individuals in avoiding actual abuse or consumption of CSAM.

CBT (my focus btw) has more than a few. Pharmacotherapy to reduce sexual desires. The one thing EVERY method agrees on is avoiding triggers. Be it games. Television. Movies. Songs, locations like schools or beaches... It's a little different per person.

On that we can agree.

Yep. Same for Freud btw.

Ah, so you actually do the same thing I try to achieve in the grey zone. Which seems to contradict quite a few of your earlier statements...
I am in IT right now, so I know how hard programming can be. But honestly, 8000 lines of code actually isn't that much... but then, I get paid to do it. That tends to make a difference.
I look forward to trying your game. If you need a beta tester...

lol... no, not at all. I said you'll never ever accomplish anything that way. It's fruitless. You can't tell someone their feelings are wrong. I thought I was clear about that. You cannot reason somoene out of something they did not reason themselves into. What I'm doing is more akin to CBT. A type of conditioning that they may or may not be aware of. The more choices they make the more they will be guided to a better solution. If they fail the CBT, they fail the game. More like a Skinner box... but it's hell'a hard to write it properly.

Yeah, I never did programming as IT. I managed MS domain/clusters, Intranet and backoffice stuff. Closest I came to programming was routers, muxes, PBXs, voice over IP ... etc... I hate programming lol.