discussion Abandoned VN Ren'Py [HS2] Money or Morals [Day4.5] [Ronovan]

[User_23742]

Yo! Just wanted to drop a quick message in here in case you guys aren't in my discord to stay up to date.

For now I'm starting work on another game I'm extremely excited about and Money or Morals is on the backburner until I feel like taking a break from this new game or get the urge to do more Money or Morals all of a sudden.

So I'm not saying that Money or Morals is abandoned, definitely not. But I am saying that you shouldn't expect an update to this game anytime soon.

I won't discuss my new game in here. If you wanna chat about it join my discord!

 

[yoyomistro]

Yo! Just wanted to drop a quick message in here in case you guys aren't in my discord to stay up to date.

For now I'm starting work on another game I'm extremely excited about and Money or Morals is on the backburner until I feel like taking a break from this new game or get the urge to do more Money or Morals all of a sudden.

So I'm not saying that Money or Morals is abandoned, definitely not. But I am saying that you shouldn't expect an update to this game anytime soon.

I won't discuss my new game in here. If you wanna chat about it join my discord!

Thanks for the update. I won't post details, but I will say I'm kinda disappointed that it's using Koikatsu and is a parody. I will still be following, and best of luck on the new endeavor.

 

[Nicest_Incest]

Thanks for the update. I won't post details, but I will say I'm kinda disappointed that it's using Koikatsu and is a parody. I will still be following, and best of luck on the new endeavor.

yeah, these days I prefer photorealistic AI, then Daz, then HS2. Anything under that (Koikatsu, TK17, The Sims, 2D hand drawn, etc) I tend to ignore. As far as Discord after they kicked Ketzal off of there a month ago I haven't had a compelling enough reason to go back. It sounds like MoM is in the same limbo as Am I The Asshole that some have been waiting on for what feels like years now, just for different reasons: On Hold for now and not Abandoned yet, but will be in a couple years when most of everyone has long since forgot it even existed and the dev has forgot where he even left off. That's partially why the update time limit is set at 18 months before considered abandoned, most will not remember much of anything as far as plot or even the AVN's existence longer than that.

 

[yoyomistro]

yeah, these days I prefer photorealistic AI, then Daz, then HS2. Anything under that (Koikatsu, TK17, The Sims, 2D hand drawn, etc) I tend to ignore. As far as Discord after they kicked Ketzal off of there a month ago I haven't had a compelling enough reason to go back. It sounds like MoM is in the same limbo as Am I The Asshole that some have been waiting on for what feels like years now, just for different reasons: On Hold for now and not Abandoned yet, but will be in a couple years when most of everyone has long since forgot it even existed and the dev has forgot where he even left off. That's partially why the update time limit is set at 18 months before considered abandoned, most will not remember much of anything as far as plot or even the AVN's existence longer than that.

I don't like AI at all. It's trained off stolen work, likenesses, etc., the syntax for written AI is so off-putting, and it removes one of the most important elements for any artistic endeavor (in my opinion): skill-gating. You can usually tell if someone is decent at their craft by looking at some obvious technical aspects of their work. I have no way of knowing that with AI-driven content, so I will just ignore it off-hand. I don't want to contribute to or boost anyone who relies on it for writing, imagery (except backgrounds, I don't mind that as much since few people are making their own backgrounds anyway), animation, etc. You can use it for scripting/coding and proof it yourself. I consider that busywork and not core to artistic endeavors. Maybe someday I'll see something AI-driven that I consider ethical and technically sound, but it hasn't happened yet.

As far as modeling programs go, I like Daz the most for sure, HS 2 probably vote for second. I like some VaM work, and others are a total miss, people really seem to vary in their ability to create compelling imagery and animations with it. You'd think the animations would be great relatively across the board since it's physics-based, but IDK anything technical about using VaM really. VaM 2 looks really promising, hope we get more solid titles with it soon. I actually like TK17, at least a couple titles that use it (stuff by Beggar of Net, and Second Happiness by VNorth is good as well). I like the art in 1 Sims model game, Moonward Farm. Besides that they're all pretty lacking in some way shape or form I'd agree. Hand drawn can be at the top of my list or the bottom, it really depends. I like Dark Cookie, Scarlett Ann, Glassfish, Sparrow, and a few others for 2D artists in game content, and a lot more for non-game content (InCase is my favorite 2D artist by far). I don't know why nobody uses SFM models for game content, I think it could do well in a VN/Sandbox game.

I'm never gonna forget this game, it hit most of my buttons besides non-con stuff, and it felt like it could have gotten to some good non-con content had it gone on long enough. It's just gonna be forever the high-potential game that wasn't alongside stuff like Gates Motel and But I'm the Bad Guy?. The art, animation, writing, pacing, were all well-done. Now all we have is the knock-off that went Patreon friendly after 2 updates.

 

[RG80100]

Yo! Just wanted to drop a quick message in here in case you guys aren't in my discord to stay up to date.

For now I'm starting work on another game I'm extremely excited about and Money or Morals is on the backburner until I feel like taking a break from this new game or get the urge to do more Money or Morals all of a sudden.

So I'm not saying that Money or Morals is abandoned, definitely not. But I am saying that you shouldn't expect an update to this game anytime soon.

I won't discuss my new game in here. If you wanna chat about it join my discord!

Man, you remind me of those videos of the kid who quit YouTube and then kept Youtube going, only to say later that he was quitting YT. Anyway, new game, after 2 updates you're going to be fed up with it again, etc., etc...

 

[Nicest_Incest]

I don't like AI at all. It's trained off stolen work, likenesses, etc., the syntax for written AI is so off-putting, and it removes one of the most important elements for any artistic endeavor (in my opinion): skill-gating. You can usually tell if someone is decent at their craft by looking at some obvious technical aspects of their work. I have no way of knowing that with AI-driven content, so I will just ignore it off-hand. I don't want to contribute to or boost anyone who relies on it for writing, imagery (except backgrounds, I don't mind that as much since few people are making their own backgrounds anyway), animation, etc. You can use it for scripting/coding and proof it yourself. I consider that busywork and not core to artistic endeavors. Maybe someday I'll see something AI-driven that I consider ethical and technically sound, but it hasn't happened yet.

As far as modeling programs go, I like Daz the most for sure, HS 2 probably vote for second. I like some VaM work, and others are a total miss, people really seem to vary in their ability to create compelling imagery and animations with it. You'd think the animations would be great relatively across the board since it's physics-based, but IDK anything technical about using VaM really. VaM 2 looks really promising, hope we get more solid titles with it soon. I actually like TK17, at least a couple titles that use it (stuff by Beggar of Net, and Second Happiness by VNorth is good as well). I like the art in 1 Sims model game, Moonward Farm. Besides that they're all pretty lacking in some way shape or form I'd agree. Hand drawn can be at the top of my list or the bottom, it really depends. I like Dark Cookie, Scarlett Ann, Glassfish, Sparrow, and a few others for 2D artists in game content, and a lot more for non-game content (InCase is my favorite 2D artist by far). I don't know why nobody uses SFM models for game content, I think it could do well in a VN/Sandbox game.

I'm never gonna forget this game, it hit most of my buttons besides non-con stuff, and it felt like it could have gotten to some good non-con content had it gone on long enough. It's just gonna be forever the high-potential game that wasn't alongside stuff like Gates Motel and But I'm the Bad Guy?. The art, animation, writing, pacing, were all well-done. Now all we have is the knock-off that went Patreon friendly after 2 updates.

Oh yeah I forgot about VAM. Goosenards does ok with it, and a few animators on A T F make some pretty good loli movies. As far as AI it's going to eventually take over everything sooner or later whether we like it or not, might as well embrace it the way I see it. Right now the biggest job growth sector is probably everything that has to do with it, including the energy sector to run it (all these new data centers popping up would be insane to even attempt without new solar and wind farms and other power plants as well). Even real actors in the next few years will be out of a job once current labor contracts expire, if talent agent enthusiasm over Tilly Norwood is any indicator. Sure, she's the punchline in a bunch of comedy skits for now but had no one made public that she's an AI trained on the acting in nearly half a million movies probably almost no one would have noticed. And I don't care if porn stars are imaginary or not or even if mainstream actors are or not, it's not like I'm going to try to find and fuck them either way anyway, aside from the usual advice of never trying to meet your heroes. Hell I can hardly wait for the day AI takes over every gov't on Earth and gets rid of stupid human politicians that seldom do anything right beyond the county level.

 

[Lostandquiet73]

yeah, these days I prefer photorealistic AI, then Daz, then HS2. Anything under that (Koikatsu, TK17, The Sims, 2D hand drawn, etc) I tend to ignore. As far as Discord after they kicked Ketzal off of there a month ago I haven't had a compelling enough reason to go back. It sounds like MoM is in the same limbo as Am I The Asshole that some have been waiting on for what feels like years now, just for different reasons: On Hold for now and not Abandoned yet, but will be in a couple years when most of everyone has long since forgot it even existed and the dev has forgot where he even left off. That's partially why the update time limit is set at 18 months before considered abandoned, most will not remember much of anything as far as plot or even the AVN's existence longer than that.

Until photorealistic AI is consistent with proportions, details and all that in every frame I don't think I'll give it much credit. I've always preferred HS2, since it seems to guarantee prettier heroines in comparison to other engines. From what I've seen, you can definitely do great stuff with DAZ, but it seems like it's very difficult since most games done with DAZ have very odd-looking characters. Also I agree that getting into another Discord server for a game+ at this point is suicide. I already got an alert that will follow me for years. I don't want to get banned.

 

[Nicest_Incest]

Until photorealistic AI is consistent with proportions, details and all that in every frame I don't think I'll give it much credit. I've always preferred HS2, since it seems to guarantee prettier heroines in comparison to other engines. From what I've seen, you can definitely do great stuff with DAZ, but it seems like it's very difficult since most games done with DAZ have very odd-looking characters. Also I agree that getting into another Discord server for a game+ at this point is suicide. I already got an alert that will follow me for years. I don't want to get banned.

There's this one isekai AVN called Luminary that does ok with AI as far as consistency. Still not perfect, but getting closer. Granted between animations it's mostly sprites-on-backgrounds but at least it's not the lazy 2D anime-looking crap simply drawn by AI, on some sites it mistakenly gets a real porn tag (none of the models are real, but look like they are). What's annoying though is there's not much sex in it (yet?) and arguably animating the stuff that doesn't need to be that adds little value like street scenes needlessly extends dev cycles. As far as Discord bans, they don't mean much, just make a disposable account with a VPN/burner email.

 

[Lostandquiet73]

There's this one isekai AVN called Luminary that does ok with AI as far as consistency. Still not perfect, but getting closer. Granted between animations it's mostly sprites-on-backgrounds but at least it's not the lazy 2D anime-looking crap simply drawn by AI, on some sites it mistakenly gets a real porn tag (none of the models are real, but look like they are). What's annoying though is there's not much sex in it (yet?) and arguably animating the stuff that doesn't need to be that adds little value like street scenes needlessly extends dev cycles. As far as Discord bans, they don't mean much, just make a disposable account with a VPN/burner email.

I'll check it out

 

[Phoenix Reborn]

yeah, these days I prefer photorealistic AI, then Daz, then HS2. Anything under that (Koikatsu, TK17, The Sims, 2D hand drawn, etc) I tend to ignore. As far as Discord after they kicked Ketzal off of there a month ago I haven't had a compelling enough reason to go back. It sounds like MoM is in the same limbo as Am I The Asshole that some have been waiting on for what feels like years now, just for different reasons: On Hold for now and not Abandoned yet, but will be in a couple years when most of everyone has long since forgot it even existed and the dev has forgot where he even left off. That's partially why the update time limit is set at 18 months before considered abandoned, most will not remember much of anything as far as plot or even the AVN's existence longer than that.

sad but true happen all time hard remember all server discord for me alts that me problem at ketzal

 

[Oakbender]

Well Rono's patreon just got nuked and I think his new discord just went poof. So I guess this is probably it.

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

You very well might already be aware, @Ronovan, but JIC as an alternative to Discord you might consider self-hosting a real-time messaging server via something like EJabber. You can even use fairly old hardware; you don't need something more than a junk computer that can run constantly. Not that you don't already have enough on your plate, ofc, but

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if you choose that specifically. And obviously there are other alternatives, like Dendrite or Mattermost. Additionally, as @Nicest_Incest has suggested elsewhere, you could create a dummy page somewhere (like on SS) that promotes some generic project that you do, in fact, work on. Have that project be very lightweight so it takes almost none of your actual time, and provide regular "updates" to that. But, in reality, everyone already a fan of yours for Money or Morals could subscribe to you and pay for the dummy project while actually getting content for MoM via links you'd provide on your self-hosted server. Anyway, sorry this has happened to you, but there are ways around this type of stuff.

 

[Republican Bear]

Nothing was lost as this game was abandoned months ago. Anyway you can't sell taboo games anymore.

Only way is to self publish and fund it yourself nowadays. Basically as a hobby as it was was 20 years ago.

As commercializing these games just put a huge target on the whole community and developers.

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[Nicest_Incest]

Well Rono's patreon just got nuked and I think his new discord just went poof. So I guess this is probably it.

Old news, MoM has been pretty much dead for ~8 months now even before Patreon did their usual thing (now a waste of time to even make a page there imo). After that he started doing other things I have no interest in anyway. Oh well, 99% of AVNs are now quickly headed back to the income-free hobby they used to be before Patreon existed anyway. At least with no platform = free to make whatever you want. With no money to follow it doesn't even need to be legal as long as it's posted from behind a logless VPN.

 

[Nicest_Incest]

Nothing was lost as this game was abandoned months ago. Anyway you can't sell taboo games anymore.

Only way is to self publish and fund it yourself nowadays. Basically as a hobby as it was was 20 years ago.

As commercializing these games just put a huge target on the whole community and developers.

You must be registered for see images

Can't sell even non-taboo games much either. The market is so flooded with crap right now (because nothing else is allowed on the usual platforms) most people that drop it on Steam don't even make their $100 review fee back. Reminds me of the gaming crash back in the 1980's when so much crap was made for the Atari 2600 after it got reverse-engineered by Sears (Video Arcade = poor man's Atari 2600) $30 game cartridges (in 1983 $, = $96 in 2025) could't sell for $2 so ended up in landfills. Can't do it just for fun = you are probably wasting your time no matter what you are making unless it's something not easy to make that just any Joe Public can try (AI chips are a hot seller right now, if you are Nvidia or TSMC at least). Need money = get an actual job or go on welfare, more lucrative. Hell even just selling your blood plasma for $50/2hr usually makes far more over time than trying to sell a game you spent 1000h making.

 

[CatSìth]

Anyone know what happened to Ronovan's discord and patreon this time around?

 

[Nicest_Incest]

Anyone know what happened to Ronovan's discord and patreon this time around?

Kinda obvious they were both banned. I mean how often does a dev take down their own page?

 

[BadJM]

Kinda obvious they were both banned. I mean how often does a dev take down their own page?

I've seen some devs deleting their own patreon but if the discord is also gone, then he just got banned. Not surprising considering the content of his game

 

[Nousouka]

Hey no one has any news form Ronovan himself or find him on another platform ?

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

Hey no one has any news form Ronovan himself or find him on another platform ?

I myself, at least, have not been able to.