discussion VN Ren'Py DAZ The Sunset Fairies [v0.15] [Ethan Krautz]

[Montimer]

I honestly didn't even notice that The Guardian had a dark path, I never took a look at anything that would unlock violent content so you can imagine my confusion when I first heard people complain about seath being a sadistic fuck.

It does. It's done in way where the story progresses the same way it usually does. However whenever you select a dark path option, the way you address the characters drastically changes. Goes from a "sweetheart" to a "whore".
Seath's content gets very, very dark. More so with his new demo game. However, despite anyone's opinion on that type of content you gotta admit that dude has stuck to his guns. Continued doing things that he's willing to do and accumulated sizable following thanks to it.
It helps really to have content like that in sea of "OOPSIE DOOPSIE, my daughter's towel slipped off and now I have desire to fuck her" type of stories.

 

[Nicest_Incest]

I honestly didn't even notice that The Guardian had a dark path, I never took a look at anything that would unlock violent content so you can imagine my confusion when I first heard people complain about seath being a sadistic fuck.

The only thing I've come across in TG that was too dark for him is a joke choice option toward the end where you can kick the MC's and Lilith's newborn daughter like a football to stop her crying = pick that and the response is something like Seath: "WTF? That's too dark even for me you sick fuck!"(paraphrased). Ironically I found that pretty hilarious even though usually 4th wall breaking annoys me.

 

[drcstack]

I personally lean the opposite way. I like that MC is a dick I guess it comes down to the fact that there's SO MANY loving VNs that seeing something different is a breath of fresh air.
I like the idea of MC training his nieces in more harsh way so they can adapt quicker and get used to it.
Thus allowing him to do more kinkier things with them.

I like that he has a rougher approach. Even more I like that we can see lolis in lingerie or BDSM scenes. They are exquisitely rare.

What I don't like about MC is how he looks. Like... bruv, drop that goddamn visor. Doesn't help that he has a monster dick which in combination with these rather flat lolis is... not very compatible. But then again, twins are cute as hell so it balances itself out.

I'll play the devils advocate here. Games die far quicker if developer gives in to demands and starts doing what others want... and not what HE wants. Completely killing passion for the game. This is what then leads to other branching projects while original one gets left in the dirt.
Ideal way to handle it is take some feedback, some ideas which align with your own. Perhaps quality of life changes or changes that make more sense.

Disagree. When a MAJORITY are complaining about the direction of the game and main character himself while having legit constructive criticism, then that's not only a major concern for your game, but overall income from subscribers. Unless he's not doing this for the money, then yeah you're right, he can do whatever, but ignoring the mass complaints and criticism he's getting is only going to kill his game and any interest for those who are playing and those who might come across it. It's important to listen to your fans and subscribers if you want to keep the ball rolling. Ppl will abandon this if he doesn't listen. From what I can tell many already have. Even I don't care to play this again simply from the reviews and recent feedback. I'm not a fan of what I'm hearing myself.

If comparing those who like the current direction to those who don't, then your in the minority. Even if he has to compromise some of his original ideas, he should to please those (the majority) who support his game and what they like about his game. He could always make a different patch for more of his hardcore ideas.

 

[Tiur]

Disagree. When a MAJORITY are complaining about the direction of the game and main character himself while having legit constructive criticism, then that's not only a major concern for your game, but overall income from subscribers. Unless he's not doing this for the money, then yeah you're right, he can do whatever, but ignoring the mass complaints and criticism he's getting is only going to kill his game and any interest for those who are playing and those who might come across it. It's important to listen to your fans and subscribers if you want to keep the ball rolling. Ppl will abandon this if he doesn't listen. From what I can tell many already have. Even I don't care to play this again simply from the reviews and recent feedback. I'm not a fan of what I'm hearing myself.

If comparing those who like the current direction to those who don't, then your in the minority. Even if he has to compromise some of his original ideas, he should to please those (the majority) who support his game and what they like about his game. He could always make a different patch for more of his hardcore ideas.

It is important not to conflate complaints on sites like this one and F95 with "a majority of supporters". Ethan has been doing this for a while, and while he doesn't have big numbers, the content of his games has not caused any visible negative change to his financial support growth; see this graph from Graphtreon at max zoom:

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[Ruffuss]

News for update 0.12 (The Sunset Fairies)
Hello everyone again, after the tender update above, we will continue with the training of Camila, Rose and Solange.
Poor Camila, she is a very disobedient girl.
On the other hand, we will see some scenes from the past, corresponding to the events before the party that I mentioned in the previous update.

Oh, and I'll continue with the photo shoot. XD

Progress
- Renders : 15%
- Script : 60%
- Coding : 15%
- Audio/music: : 0%

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[Montimer]

Disagree. When a MAJORITY are complaining about the direction of the game and main character himself while having legit constructive criticism, then that's not only a major concern for your game, but overall income from subscribers. Unless he's not doing this for the money, then yeah you're right, he can do whatever, but ignoring the mass complaints and criticism he's getting is only going to kill his game and any interest for those who are playing and those who might come across it. It's important to listen to your fans and subscribers if you want to keep the ball rolling. Ppl will abandon this if he doesn't listen. From what I can tell many already have. Even I don't care to play this again simply from the reviews and recent feedback. I'm not a fan of what I'm hearing myself.

It is important to listen to fans. However not let them hijack it. You wanna kill your game in most sure-fire way? Listen to demands of people who write on forums and pay you. Let your project become theirs. Do what others wanna see and ta-daaaah. There goes the willpower to continue the project.
Guess what happens next. Dev loses it and quits or branches out to a new project over which he has more control. I do agree though that some concerns are valid.
Like MC's stupidly big dick that directly makes the game worse or the fact that tone of the game has drastically shifted and the rougher content has taken preference over the loving one.

At the same time, when it comes to rougher content...
In order to get to them, you'd have to for most part choose the more rude options.
If you played through lot of the game, it has been eluding and directing towards it a lot. More so with one of the nieces being a masochist.
People here and on the other side greatly exaggerate what happens. It isn't rape. They aren't getting raped. Well, not in conventional way. It is however rape because they are lolis. But if that was the case, half the games in games+ should have a rape tag, ey?
MC's stupidly big dick is also problem that causes lot of the things that happen. Like nieces choking out on the dick, being unable to walk after the fucking etc.

In the end, you have billion incest love story VNs. Very few incest with lolis being treated in such dominant way. Even if it's at points cartoonishly exaggerated. I personally like it. I personally hope we get more dom content. I personally hope we get more lolis in lingerie and kinky scenes. Because it's unique type of content you don't see.

As for minority and majority, who knows how it is. There's lot of lurkers. There's lot of people who play the game and don't talk here or voice their concerns or praise the game.

 

[drcstack]

It is important not to conflate complaints on sites like this one and Fuck95 with "a majority of supporters". Ethan has been doing this for a while, and while he doesn't have big numbers, the content of his games has not caused any visible negative change to his financial support growth; see this graph from Graphtreon at max zoom:

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True, if going off from this site alone which I was honestly doing, I would believe he's losing his original fan base. If going by this chart it's still pretty decent. Though it looks like it dropped just a bit, but that much is fine. Someone said he was losing paid members regularly. I have no idea how true that is. But still, I think I'm done with this game

 

[drcstack]

It is important to listen to fans. However not let them hijack it. You wanna kill your game in most sure-fire way? Listen to demands of people who write on forums and pay you. Let your project become theirs. Do what others wanna see and ta-daaaah. There goes the willpower to continue the project.
Guess what happens next. Dev loses it and quits or branches out to a new project over which he has more control. I do agree though that some concerns are valid.
Like MC's stupidly big dick that directly makes the game worse or the fact that tone of the game has drastically shifted and the rougher content has taken preference over the loving one.

At the same time, when it comes to rougher content...
In order to get to them, you'd have to for most part choose the more rude options.
If you played through lot of the game, it has been eluding and directing towards it a lot. More so with one of the nieces being a masochist.
People here and on the other side greatly exaggerate what happens. It isn't rape. They aren't getting raped. Well, not in conventional way. It is however rape because they are lolis. But if that was the case, half the games in games+ should have a rape tag, ey?
MC's stupidly big dick is also problem that causes lot of the things that happen. Like nieces choking out on the dick, being unable to walk after the fucking etc.

In the end, you have billion incest love story VNs. Very few incest with lolis being treated in such dominant way. Even if it's at points cartoonishly exaggerated. I personally like it. I personally hope we get more dom content. I personally hope we get more lolis in lingerie and kinky scenes. Because it's unique type of content you don't see.

As for minority and majority, who knows how it is. There's lot of lurkers. There's lot of people who play the game and don't talk here or voice their concerns or praise the game.

No one is trying to hijack his game, just compared to earlier he went in a different direction that many don't like including myself. From your logic it sounds like if he listens to his fans it's the same as them hijacking it which is contradictory.

"Listen to demands of people who write on forums and pay you. Let your project become theirs. Do what others wanna see and ta-daaaah. There goes the willpower to continue the project."

He originally had a direction that's different than it is now, that's the only thing ppl are basically complaining about. He's losing a fanbase he brought in from earlier versions because he didn't display the mc as a sadistic dick. That's what getting ppl now. So for him to switch up now is confusing his audience. If you want to keep whatever income this game brought in from the audience you reeled in, then yes listen to the ppl who write on forums and pay you. Supply and demand is the very first rule of business. It sounds like you don't understand business, you just want what you want. You speak very counterproductive. If he losses interest then he simply wasn't in it for the money. And if he's not in it for the money, but as a hobby means only, then you're right. Everything I said was wrong. But what is More important than anything is knowing your audience. You cannot switch up or shift direction in the middle of your game. I think it's normal ppl are complaining about it. If he made it aware that it would be like this from the get go then all would be fair and no one would have any right to complain, but he didn't...

 

[Montimer]

No one is trying to hijack his game, just compared to earlier he went in a different direction that many don't like including myself.

Sure but... the game quite literally has loving scenes too. In latest one, you straight up tell your niece that you love her during a soft sex scene.
Compared to what happens in the corruption route where you bind her, gag her and fuck her all night until she's sore.
We can go back.
Much earlier chapter scene with Emma around chapter... 8?
You can decide to spy or not spy on Emma in the love room. If you dont spy on her, you have a lovely scene from behind where you ask her if she likes it and she is quite calm.
You choose the bottom option and spy on her? Well, you watch her. You come to her, throw her on bed, rip her clothes and fuck her while choking her out. But she still likes it.

I legitimately don't see problem with the routes. Only problem is I guess people's expectations of the selfish corruption route to be less rough, despite its supposed purpose of being rough.

He originally had a direction that's different than it is now, that's the only thing ppl are basically complaining about. He's losing a fanbase he brought in from earlier versions because he didn't display the mc as a sadistic dick.

I can understand if he's losing the supposed fanbase over the corruption path ramping up but if you replay through the earlier sections too, it's made clear that often times MC uses his nieces for HIS OWN pleasure.
I get that some scenes can be too much but that can be avoided by picking the other route fully and sticking to it. Love route seems fine to me. Little bit pervy and controlling but still loving. Corruption route is case of him slowly breaking down his nieces. Which is usually how corruption stories go.

It sounds like you don't understand business, you just want what you want. You speak very counterproductive. If he losses interest then he simply wasn't in it for the money. And if he's not in it for the money, but as a hobby means only, then you're right. Everything I said was wrong. But what is More important than anything is knowing your audience. You cannot switch up or shift direction in the middle of your game. I think it's normal ppl are complaining about it. If he made it aware that it would be like this from the get go then all would be fair and no one would have any right to complain, but he didn't...

Very much understand the business considering I work in business sector irl. However aside from that I have closely worked and supported developers over many years.
You are absolutely right. If a developer wants to make a bank, he sells out. He does content others want. Usually with higher 20-100$ tiers where people get to quite literally commission scenes.
But unless you're fully committed to this idea of work, your original idea of OUR OWN project is going to go to shit. Maybe even lose coherence, its original charm etc. You severely underestimate how fast people give up if they lose passion for the work they did previously because it doesn't align with what they wanted. Even worse for some - they decide to milk the fanbase they wrapped around fingers. Delivering minimum content while milking people for years.

Additionally while I think addressing the complaints could've been done more diplomatically by the dev, lot of people need to chill out and understand that the image he posted was a joke. Fully justified too.
Sorry if this sounds too much like dickriding on the dev but like...
Some people complain about rapy corruption route despite one character being a masochist, despite previous updates having ramping up scenes in terms of severity and game was unapologetic about wanting nieces for personal pleasure.
Some people want milfs in a loli game.
Some people call it rape, despite the hypocrisy of not acknowledging that entire game, including lovey-dovey scenes would still by legal laws be classified as rape.
Some people complain despite the love route having VERY CLEAR distinctive difference.

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[drcstack]

Sure but... the game quite literally has loving scenes too. In latest one, you straight up tell your niece that you love her during a soft sex scene.
Compared to what happens in the corruption route where you bind her, gag her and fuck her all night until she's sore.
We can go back.
Much earlier chapter scene with Emma around chapter... 8?
You can decide to spy or not spy on Emma in the love room. If you dont spy on her, you have a lovely scene from behind where you ask her if she likes it and she is quite calm.
You choose the bottom option and spy on her? Well, you watch her. You come to her, throw her on bed, rip her clothes and fuck her while choking her out. But she still likes it.

I legitimately don't see problem with the routes. Only problem is I guess people's expectations of the selfish corruption route to be less rough, despite its supposed purpose of being rough.

I can understand if he's losing the supposed fanbase over the corruption path ramping up but if you replay through the earlier sections too, it's made clear that often times MC uses his nieces for HIS OWN pleasure.
I get that some scenes can be too much but that can be avoided by picking the other route fully and sticking to it. Love route seems fine to me. Little bit pervy and controlling but still loving. Corruption route is case of him slowly breaking down his nieces. Which is usually how corruption stories go.

Very much understand the business considering I work in business sector irl. However aside from that I have closely worked and supported developers over many years.
You are absolutely right. If a developer wants to make a bank, he sells out. He does content others want. Usually with higher 20-100$ tiers where people get to quite literally commission scenes.
But unless you're fully committed to this idea of work, your original idea of OUR OWN project is going to go to shit. Maybe even lose coherence, its original charm etc. You severely underestimate how fast people give up if they lose passion for the work they did previously because it doesn't align with what they wanted. Even worse for some - they decide to milk the fanbase they wrapped around fingers. Delivering minimum content while milking people for years.

Additionally while I think addressing the complaints could've been done more diplomatically by the dev, lot of people need to chill out and understand that the image he posted was a joke. Fully justified too.
Sorry if this sounds too much like dickriding on the dev but like...
Some people complain about rapy corruption route despite one character being a masochist, despite previous updates having ramping up scenes in terms of severity and game was unapologetic about wanting nieces for personal pleasure.
Some people want milfs in a loli game.
Some people call it rape, despite the hypocrisy of not acknowledging that entire game, including lovey-dovey scenes would still by legal laws be classified as rape.
Some people complain despite the love route having VERY CLEAR distinctive difference.

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I don't think you're quite wrong here. I can agree with you on this aspect. I just think where he mostly went wrong at is that for the corruption routes, instead making them more pervy, depraved and kinky Little nieces, he made the MC an uncaring sadistic dick towards his on cute nieces who like and rely on him. That's not exactly corruption, it's more S&M or BDSM. It conflicts what we want or see as corruption. It's like what he misunderstood what corruption is. And while it's true corruption can come from those two fetishes, S&M and BDSM, it's not the one where a majority wants or expected. I think he needs to reconsider what corruption is and what the complaints are about.

 

[Poisonkiller18]

I am in love with Emma And Camilla and have a soft connection to the girls

 

[AlfaBit]

this game would have been a wonder given he sticked to the so called lovey dovey vision he showed initially, now even the corruption path feels a bit off, dont know whats with loli devs and dark paths, almost all of these games are plaged with that shit.

 

[AlfaBit]

It is important not to conflate complaints on sites like this one and Fuck95 with "a majority of supporters". Ethan has been doing this for a while, and while he doesn't have big numbers, the content of his games has not caused any visible negative change to his financial support growth; see this graph from Graphtreon at max zoom:

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while it hasn't decreased drastically, it isn't increasing either which gives rise to the question if needs to reconsider his stratigies, at the moment it seems like even his writing is suffering from his pteferences. characters doesn't feel normal/real because he wants them to live up to those preferences too soon. it was the first niece fuck and it was this brutal whats coming next? for what should one continue playing the game??? it should be 1 2 3.... but in his case its mostly 10 9 8 10... it never dive below 8.

 

[elfieeven]

Big problem is the tonal shift of the game. You play a Seath game you KNOW what you're getting into. With this one it seemed nice and cute and them BAM.. Would have been a lot better to have foreshadowed how messed up the MC is. That way it would have the audience who appreciates this kind of thing from day 1.

 

[Nicest_Incest]

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[Tiur]

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Wrong game, that's for Between Salvation and Abyss (see the "Between" tag).

 

[Nicest_Incest]

Wrong game, that's for Between Salvation and Abyss (see the "Between" tag).

D'oh, did that out of habit, last several updates have been TSF.

 

[Knight5946]

Anybody do an android version of this? The other person is being really slow about it IF they are gonna do it at all

 

[captain_hamhog]

So, I read some the comments, does this game get dark or something? Does it have a love path? Or does it turn into a corruption path?

 

[Nicest_Incest]

So, I read some the comments, does this game get dark or something? Does it have a love path? Or does it turn into a corruption path?

The MC is a creep (he's molesting his underage nieces, so duh) with either path, one is just more physically violent than the other, but it can get pretty cringe even on the "light" path if one is not used to these types of AVNs. I had a feeling it was going to be like this after playing his previous AVN first so wasn't shocked or surprised when it escalated kinda quickly after one was basically waterboarded with his cum with a throat creampie a few updates ago. Not that I'm usually heavy into this type of kink, but the nieces are cute (though my interest did wane a bit when it was revleaded they are not actually his secret daughters and he never even fucked his sister).