discussion Bitcoin and adult game monetization

[Freyr]

I was thinking about adult games and in particular those which might lead to legal problems for creators.
After certain events, several creators have stopped or changed their games.
But there are also other reasons why creators of adult games would want to remain anonymous.

The problem, I think, is that it is difficult to monetize a project while remaining anonymous.
If you want to remain anonymous, you have to stay away from banks and credit cards.
You also have to stay away from sites like Patreon and SubscribeStar.

Probably Bitcoin (or other crypto coins) are the easiest way to get sufficient anonymity.
But there must be drawbacks because I rarely see people doing this.

Personally I am in the "I don't have Bitcoin yet, I am willing to look into it but I am not sure" category but would like to hear from others whether this might be a good idea and why this somehow has not happened yet,

 

[Kaeru]

Is SubscribeStar not anonymous? It's in their TOS that they only share your bank details with the payment processor, not with any of your subs. I personally use it and it seems pretty secure unless a date leak were to happen.

As for Bitcoin or other crypto, I just don't think it's viable, because not that many people use it to begin with. If you're only looking for some donations, it might be useful, but if you want to offer people something in return or want to make an actual living wage, using crypto is probably not the way to go for now. Too much of a hassle for most people to setup a wallet just to donate to one creator they might like.

 

[MattShizzle]

Not interested. From what I understand it's mostly used by criminals to extort people by holding their computers hostage.

 

[ArtoriasABW]

I think it's just a matter of time, unless someone stop Visa and Paypal witch hunt, but I don't think anyone will advocate for porn.

 

[Regacide]

If you are getting into crypto for payment isn’t the big current thing Monero rather than Bitcoin? I thought Bitcoin was mainly for "investors" these days.

 

[Freyr]

Is SubscribeStar not anonymous? It's in their TOS that they only share your bank details with the payment processor, not with any of your subs.

Obviously SubscribeStar has to hand over your bank details with the authorities if they suspect you are committing a crime.

It's anonymous as far as that. If you never drop any hints of where you might live, then maybe nobody will bother you. But if you have something at stake then I think it's a pretty big risk to depend on TOS.

Of course, if you are hiding your identity from friends and family it's different than if you are trying to hide from the police.

I personally use it and it seems pretty secure unless a date leak were to happen.

Honestly I think data leaks are a fact of life. It *will* happen at some point. The question is how exposed you will be when it happens.

As for Bitcoin or other crypto, I just don't think it's viable, because not that many people use it to begin with. If you're only looking for some donations, it might be useful, but if you want to offer people something in return or want to make an actual living wage, using crypto is probably not the way to go for now. Too much of a hassle for most people to setup a wallet just to donate to one creator they might like.

I fear the same...

 

[Freyr]

Not interested. From what I understand it's mostly used by criminals to extort people by holding their computers hostage.

That's a bit short sighted as well as factually incorrect.

I think it's mostly an investment vehicle for most people at the moment.

Sure it might be used by some criminals but one man's criminal is another man's freedom fighter, right?

 

[Gorden]

That's a bit short sighted as well as factually incorrect.

I think it's mostly an investment vehicle for most people at the moment.

Sure it might be used by some criminals but one man's criminal is another man's freedom fighter, right?

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[Gorden]

I don't like this idea

 

[Freyr]

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Think of it like a pie diagram:

1) All bitcoins in existence
2) The part used for criminal activities in the broadest sense (I think much less than 50% but I don't have the statistics at hand)
3) The part of (2) used for the specific purpose of "holding their computers hostage" (which I also think is a rather small portion of all criminally used bitcoins)

So if (1) is 100% of the pie, then (2) can be at most 50% and (3) at most 25%, which makes the statement by @MattShizzle factually incorrect.

I don't like this idea

Fair enough but why?

I don't like the idea of Westy being in prison either.

 

[Ant28jsp]

It will eventually come one day like anything but I doubt it will be received very favorably.

 

[IFF01]

Not for me

 

[FeyMask]

Crypto's reputation is in the gutter so I think is a bad look to associate your project to it.

 

[MichealIsKing!]

Crypto is unregulated dogshit and is not nearly as anonymous as people think. If creators wanna take payment with it fine but I would never pay them with it unless by some unholy disastrous nightmare crypto actually becomes the default mode of payment.

 

[SegmentCoalescing]

Crypto is the future for anything that Visa/Mastercard doesn't like, not only anonymity.

An issue with crypto however is that they tend to be very volatile, especially bitcoin. You'd need to use a stablecoin in my opinion.

 

[Karamchad]

Its sad that Steam is bending the knee to god-knows-who and banning so many games while allowing other type of degeneracy and ultra violence run free.
Clearly there is a hypocritical element on the works in the best game virtual store on the planet.
That and the unbelievable stupidity of japanese law forcing censorship on genitals, that is beyond any human logic.

 

[Zilcho]

I have used crypto for payments before. It's annoying, takes a long time, but it works. And, when properly mixed, while not fully anonymous, it goes a long way. No one can argue it's less anonymous then handing over your credit card info through an open internet connection, especially if that info is tied to a user account, and especially if it requires an address. Every Know-Your-Customer application has either a secondary or even primary purpose of ratting you out to the feds or putting you on a special list. What, did you think Google just became the de facto tech giant all on its own? Its analytics run everywhere. Same with Facebook. Same with Amazon. Microsoft, Apple, et. al. Why don't you ask where the grants came from for those big-player corporate expansions?

In any case, I don't do anything illegal with my funds - If it is, it's clearly not something that would normally be illegal and they're overreaching anyway. There are many things I purchase regularly with normal banking details, but sometimes you want private to just be private. You want my personal information? You can pay handsomely for it like everyone else does, without your consent.

 

[DaveH]

One of the larger problems with bitcoin payments is the ludicrous transaction fees, long transaction commit times, and that it's completely not scalable to a worldwide payment system (handling only thousands of transactions per hour, instead of 10 thousands per second)

The only payment system i'd trust with dubious content (depending on your location) is cash by postal-service (or abstractions on this, like amazon giftcards)

For many of the games here, I'd wish there was some completely unrelated (virtual/actual) item you could buy on ebay or some webshop where the actual profits/product is a key / link whatever to a payed version / donation. But none of this scales, and it's mostly manual work / tedious.

 

[Freyr]

I have used crypto for payments before. It's annoying, takes a long time, but it works. And, when properly mixed, while not fully anonymous, it goes a long way. No one can argue it's less anonymous then handing over your credit card info through an open internet connection, especially if that info is tied to a user account, and especially if it requires an address. Every Know-Your-Customer application has either a secondary or even primary purpose of ratting you out to the feds or putting you on a special list. What, did you think Google just became the de facto tech giant all on its own? Its analytics run everywhere. Same with Facebook. Same with Amazon. Microsoft, Apple, et. al. Why don't you ask where the grants came from for those big-player corporate expansions?

In any case, I don't do anything illegal with my funds - If it is, it's clearly not something that would normally be illegal and they're overreaching anyway. There are many things I purchase regularly with normal banking details, but sometimes you want private to just be private. You want my personal information? You can pay handsomely for it like everyone else does, without your consent.

This is my opinion as well.

There was one guy who voted "I already have Bitcoin but think it's not anonymous / safe enough for this purpose" but I don't think he commented in the thread yet. I'm not a bitcoin specialist, I do know there are some potential issues, but as you say "if properly mixed" it should be ok.

One of the larger problems with bitcoin payments is the ludicrous transaction fees, long transaction commit times, and that it's completely not scalable to a worldwide payment system (handling only thousands of transactions per hour, instead of 10 thousands per second)

The only payment system i'd trust with dubious content (depending on your location) is cash by postal-service (or abstractions on this, like amazon giftcards)

For many of the games here, I'd wish there was some completely unrelated (virtual/actual) item you could buy on ebay or some webshop where the actual profits/product is a key / link whatever to a payed version / donation. But none of this scales, and it's mostly manual work / tedious.

I like cash by post as well from the user side, but for the dev side it needs a post address which is complicated.

Giftcards are actually not a bad idea either...
Scaling is not a huge problem in my opinion. Most devs make around a grand / month. It's not so bad to be able spend $1000/month on goodies on Amazon or whereever.
It becomes a problem once game development becomes a dev's main job and he needs to pay the mortgage / rent with it.

Which is the advantage of crypto, it is relatively easy to convert it back to cash. Price volatility is a problem but it goes both ways, sometimes good, sometimes bad.
It's not ideal but better than going to prison.

What really does surprise me is how negative many people are about bitcoin, and that even here, people reject it on seemingly moral grounds.
I'm happy that people are speaking up but I didn't expect this.

 

[anon515]

Crypto is the future, but by god it needs some level of regulation because it is a scamfest so far, and there are a bunch of ways to rob your wallet apparently. Can't avoid it forever, but will holdout until problems are fixed.

NSFW gamedevs do deserve income though, so hoping we can just make subscribestar better for now or make something better