discussion Most Of It Is Crap..... And That's A Good Thing.

[XCIX99]

Growing up in the 80's and 90's was a great time for lovers of rock music. There were so many bands and so many new types of emerging rock styles.

Already, way back then, the rock oldies station were already playing the same 60's and 70's rock oldies that some stations still play today. This was great for a kid just learning about rock n roll, but eventually some of us realized that the songs played were the same one's over and over, focus tested, formulaic, and formatted by big corporate committees. These stations always played "good" music, but somehow it was not enough. There was something fake in it.

A local station started up that played a lot of modern rock and music from local and regional band. I often thought that the songs on the station were awful, but it was my favorite station and I loved the authenticity. I even met one of the DJ's and all these years later the station is still going and my DJ friend is still on the air. No, the station is not as independent as it was, it's become more formulaic and programed, but still I got a very passive front row seat of watching modern rock become a thing.

It was great because on the front lines of artistic creation you get to see the casualties of wretched art being blown to pieces and bleeding out in front of you. It's not pretty, I know, but it is real. This may seem a tangent, but it aligns with my point, that many recognize the time period in France's impressionists as extraordinary and unique. There were many great art works and artists that came from that time period. Why? First, the reason is because there were a lot of folks buying the art. That is the number one reason. Second, and this is not told much, is that more art was created in that period that was crap than that was not crap. History forgets the failures, but it's all those folks trying that makes the magic happen!

'Yes,' you may say at this point, 'isn't all this a lot of words about a bunch of porn?'

Maybe.

I judge most of this stuff as way-too-much-effort-for-garbage-quality-fap material. At least 90% of it aligns with my metaphor above as a casualty on the front lines being blown apart and bleeding out. Stupid and ugly renders. Vile and inspid story telling. Horrible animations. Gruesome and tedious sexual motivations. Banal and dreary dialog, Uninspiring and pathetic characters. So much of it written by simps of simps who are so far from Alpha male they hang on the last little letter a in the word Omega. It makes me weep for masculinity and creativity at the pathetic garbage found in most of these virtual novel sites!

But, I love the authenticity! I cherish the creativity that is found in the 10% of these VNs!!!! So many of the creative systems of the world are broken and sterile. Hollywood, book publishing, AAAA games, Broadway and Theatre, Opera, Ballet, Modern Art, and even Manga and Anime are being overtaken by corporate/government/elite control.

Here in this wretched hive of scum and villany, we have some "porn" visual novels that combine amazing animations and visuals, gripping plots, interesting characters, unique themes, and other elements that I judge as noteworthy and are better than so many of the movies, tv shows and shitty entertainment that is served to the masses every day.

This site and others like it is amazing because it creates a market place for regular folks to try to create something and get paid for it. That is genius. Like the analogy of the Impressionist era in France, we have a time period where many are sick of porn, sick of hollywood, sick of AAAA games, have access to a computer and technology to create things, have lived their whole lives in a culture of story telling and digital art, have lived in places where unique things like independent game studios, comic book creators, movie makers, content creators, music makers and others are all finding niches and ways to connect to buyers.

Quantity always precedes quality. There is a lot of crappy VN on this website. They are hardly Visual and barely Novels and I gag at how bad they are, but, in my opinion: that's a good thing! Give me real any day over fake.

 

[Thuryspochen]

Growing up in the 80's and 90's was a great time for lovers of rock music. There were so many bands and so many new types of emerging rock styles.

Already, way back then, the rock oldies station were already playing the same 60's and 70's rock oldies that some stations still play today. This was great for a kid just learning about rock n roll, but eventually some of us realized that the songs played were the same one's over and over, focus tested, formulaic, and formatted by big corporate committees. These stations always played "good" music, but somehow it was not enough. There was something fake in it.

A local station started up that played a lot of modern rock and music from local and regional band. I often thought that the songs on the station were awful, but it was my favorite station and I loved the authenticity. I even met one of the DJ's and all these years later the station is still going and my DJ friend is still on the air. No, the station is not as independent as it was, it's become more formulaic and programed, but still I got a very passive front row seat of watching modern rock become a thing.

It was great because on the front lines of artistic creation you get to see the casualties of wretched art being blown to pieces and bleeding out in front of you. It's not pretty, I know, but it is real. This may seem a tangent, but it aligns with my point, that many recognize the time period in France's impressionists as extraordinary and unique. There were many great art works and artists that came from that time period. Why? First, the reason is because there were a lot of folks buying the art. That is the number one reason. Second, and this is not told much, is that more art was created in that period that was crap than that was not crap. History forgets the failures, but it's all those folks trying that makes the magic happen!

'Yes,' you may say at this point, 'isn't all this a lot of words about a bunch of porn?'

Maybe.

I judge most of this stuff as way-too-much-effort-for-garbage-quality-fap material. At least 90% of it aligns with my metaphor above as a casualty on the front lines being blown apart and bleeding out. Stupid and ugly renders. Vile and inspid story telling. Horrible animations. Gruesome and tedious sexual motivations. Banal and dreary dialog, Uninspiring and pathetic characters. So much of it written by simps of simps who are so far from Alpha male they hang on the last little letter a in the word Omega. It makes me weep for masculinity and creativity at the pathetic garbage found in most of these virtual novel sites!

But, I love the authenticity! I cherish the creativity that is found in the 10% of these VNs!!!! So many of the creative systems of the world are broken and sterile. Hollywood, book publishing, AAAA games, Broadway and Theatre, Opera, Ballet, Modern Art, and even Manga and Anime are being overtaken by corporate/government/elite control.

Here in this wretched hive of scum and villany, we have some "porn" visual novels that combine amazing animations and visuals, gripping plots, interesting characters, unique themes, and other elements that I judge as noteworthy and are better than so many of the movies, tv shows and shitty entertainment that is served to the masses every day.

This site and others like it is amazing because it creates a market place for regular folks to try to create something and get paid for it. That is genius. Like the analogy of the Impressionist era in France, we have a time period where many are sick of porn, sick of hollywood, sick of AAAA games, have access to a computer and technology to create things, have lived their whole lives in a culture of story telling and digital art, have lived in places where unique things like independent game studios, comic book creators, movie makers, content creators, music makers and others are all finding niches and ways to connect to buyers.

Quantity always precedes quality. There is a lot of crappy VN on this website. They are hardly Visual and barely Novels and I gag at how bad they are, but, in my opinion: that's a good thing! Give me real any day over fake.

It doesn't help that beauty ultimately is in the eye of the beholder, and a number of the devs involved don't truly enjoy their work, or have a clear idea of what they want to create. When they do, it shows, and people are drawn to the work, regardless of whether it would've otherwise been something they would normally seek.

 

[dk84]

'Yes,' you may say at this point, 'isn't all this a lot of words about a bunch of porn?'

THIS XD.
But it all depends in what everyone search in a porn game

 

[kemad]

idk if quantity necessarily leads to quality tbh, but i think i get where you're coming from. people with or without talent or the patience to grow would never know if they could make something good if they don't at least try. will it be mediocre at first? maybe, but everyone's mediocre when they're just starting out (usually)

 

[stumpy007]

I'm a child of the 80's and 90's, grew up playing D&D, playing first gen RPG's on my commodore, reading every comic I could get my hands on, and it was the same then as now, we have artists creating masterpieces as well absolute trash, but as long as they are trying I think it's awesome, I'll play 99 bad games and contribute to them just to get that 100th masterpiece, and those 99 artists can keep working at it. Sidenote: I don't feel like anyone younger than 30 will feel the same excitement of seeing our comics, games, and books come to life in ways unimaginable decades ago, or the anguish we felt when the Borderlands movie came out.

 

[Animal_OG]

So much of it written by simps of simps who are so far from Alpha male they hang on the last little letter a in the word Omega. It makes me weep for masculinity and creativity at the pathetic garbage found in most of these virtual novel sites!

Lmao. What would be the "alpha male" way of writing a story?
Would the writer have to serve and live through two World Wars like Ernest Hemingway? Or maybe sneak around the Cambodian jungles and Afghanistan just to interview high ranking officials like Vollmann?

 

[User_124703]

Lmao. What would be the "alpha male" way of writing a story?
Would the writer have to serve and live through two World Wars like Ernest Hemingway? Or maybe sneak around the Cambodian jungles and Afghanistan just to interview high ranking officials like Vollmann?

Well I think Alpha male just don't have the urge to write a novel. Don't you think?

 

[User_116406]

Kinda getting the feeling that the akpha male comment was tongue in cheek, but I totally agree that art suffers when it's designed by committe to be safe and consumer friendly. We always need young, inexperienced, hungry artists punching above their weight. Many will make garbage, some will make diamonds in the rough (I adore cheesy b-movies from the 70/80s), and a few will make masterpieces. This is the way it is supposed to be, because than art is made for the expression of art itself. When art is made solely with the intention of being a commodity to be sold, it will never be as flawed, interesting or memorable. And yes, I think the same is true with all modes of creative expresson, including porn

 

[Animal_OG]

Well I think Alpha male just don't have the urge to write a novel. Don't you think?

Kinda getting the feeling that the akpha male comment was tongue in cheek, but I totally agree that art suffers when it's designed by committe to be safe and consumer friendly. We always need young, inexperienced, hungry artists punching above their weight. Many will make garbage, some will make diamonds in the rough (I adore cheesy b-movies from the 70/80s), and a few will make masterpieces. This is the way it is supposed to be, because than art is made for the expression of art itself. When art is made solely with the intention of being a commodity to be sold, it will never be as flawed, interesting or memorable. And yes, I think the same is true with all modes of creative expresson, including porn

Yeah I'm just fucking with OP lol, I wanted to see his response... But I do feel artists need more ambition and a risk-taking behavior. Ferks said it perfectly.

 

[XCIX99]

Lmao. What would be the "alpha male" way of writing a story?
Would the writer have to serve and live through two World Wars like Ernest Hemingway? Or maybe sneak around the Cambodian jungles and Afghanistan just to interview high ranking officials like Vollmann?

Fundamentally, the concept of an alpha male is a heuristic way to represent a category or type of man. It's just a fuzzy label based on generalized patterns. That is how I am using the term and I apologize I have no better one.

How not to write like an alpha male, is a better question. Look at the collapse of Hollywood, or many will known IP franchises over the last decade. Alpha male writing is absent and the results show.

What's amazing about the really good visual novels on here, is that many of them show men being leaders, solving problems, building a group of women who need them and whom they support. They model the alpha man at the core of his nature: creating and defending life. These are popular because deep down men and women know this is aligned with masculine power and the imperative needs of the nature of reality.

You don't get this, no offense intended. You are a product of simp-culture. Your idea of an alpha is a caricature of what one truly is.

 

[Animal_OG]

Fundamentally, the concept of an alpha male is a heuristic way to represent a category or type of man. It's just a fuzzy label based on generalized patterns. That is how I am using the term and I apologize I have no better one.

How not to write like an alpha male, is a better question. Look at the collapse of Hollywood, or many will known IP franchises over the last decade. Alpha male writing is absent and the results show.

What's amazing about the really good visual novels on here, is that many of them show men being leaders, solving problems, building a group of women who need them and whom they support. They model the alpha man at the core of his nature: creating and defending life. These are popular because deep down men and women know this is aligned with masculine power and the imperative needs of the nature of reality.

I was agreeing and nodding as I read this. I have a similar view; a good man works to better himself, leads by example, is dependable, cunning, and sees opportunity where most see defeat... At least that's how my father raised me.
But then you had to write this bullshit:

You don't get this, no offense intended. You are a product of simp-culture. Your idea of an alpha is a caricature of what one truly is.

I do take offense, as I never disagreed with your original post. I just poked fun given that we are on a meme forum, but I guess you didn't get it.
Inducing that I'm a "simp" over something that small really says a lot about your character. You don't know shit about me, armchair philosopher.

 

[loodie]

I don't know if I agree with the conclusion but I do agree with the sentiment. People become boomers and whine that today's music is bad and that of the previous generation was good. However this exact belief is literally repeated over and over with each generation. As you've already stated, people don't forget that with the classics, there's a huge mountain of garbage that you can find in any second hand store. So many types, CDs, vinyls of unlistenable trash of every decade.

With that being said.

I'm unsure of what purpose these adult games are made here? Compared to music, what amount are made to chase a trend to make money? What amount are made as a general passion project? What amount have both money and passion behind them?

There are games I quite enjoyed where the story element is extremely thin, but there are VNs and 3D games that I enjoyed where the story/quality greatly varies. Take Velesk games for example. He made Warlock of Lust, and many others on an engine that he made from scratch as a 1 person team. I often see people whine with how ugly and low quality the characters are but despite it, I greatly enjoy it. Even if in some of his games the story is thinner than a plastic bag. Does that make it an inferior game to one that has a rich immersive story?

I guess just like music where there are songs that you could relisten to critically while others that have a simplistic dance beat. Each has its own purpose and could do the job well.

 

[loodie]

Fundamentally, the concept of an alpha male is a heuristic way to represent a category or type of man. It's just a fuzzy label based on generalized patterns. That is how I am using the term and I apologize I have no better one.

How not to write like an alpha male, is a better question. Look at the collapse of Hollywood, or many will known IP franchises over the last decade. Alpha male writing is absent and the results show.

What's amazing about the really good visual novels on here, is that many of them show men being leaders, solving problems, building a group of women who need them and whom they support. They model the alpha man at the core of his nature: creating and defending life. These are popular because deep down men and women know this is aligned with masculine power and the imperative needs of the nature of reality.

You don't get this, no offense intended. You are a product of simp-culture. Your idea of an alpha is a caricature of what one truly is.

Ooof, this is getting silly. We have "alpha male" movies, they're movies meant to pander to the lowest common denominator of men. They're still being made to this day. Big man go boom boom with fist or gun to save the day. He's smart, knows everything, has sex with all the women, and is feared and loved. That is complete trash. There is zero complexity. Those movies are dime a dozen. It's the garbage you'd find in a dollar bin in a Walmart, or at any second hand shop.

It's no more than a childish fantasy that's just as juvenile in writing. I still enjoy the movies but let's be real when it comes to giving them merit. It goes into the choreography.
If you're talking about older movies like Dirty Harry, take a guess with what they're pandering to. What was happening at that time. We often hear people whine about how movies have an agenda and everything is woke but these very people turn a blind eye how movies for a very long time now have been pandering to their demographic with certain sentiments, nevermind white washing and straight washing characters despite the original fictional and nonfictional story being different.

I seem to have completely misread your first paragraph.

First off. Even in the 70's, corporations were already having huge control in what people listen to. They were making decisions on what is played on the radio. This was happening far before they bought up every radio station. Literally every classic rock and dad rock band was heavily affected by corporations. Without them, they would not get the big venues, the PR, the incentive for radio stations to play them, the spreading of their name to every corner, the merch, etc.

Secondly, the only reason why rock is no longer as popular is because it's nearly a dead genre. Corporations don't have control in what genres are being invented, and teens who are the main people who first pick up on the new "hip" underground genre or artist have found nothing because there simply isn't anything to be found as far as rock goes. There are still amazing rock groups coming out but they're far and few in between compared to yesteryear but there's no new genres.

Secondly there is no collapse of Hollywood. At best, there's a bigger issue of people not being to afford the time or money to go, being able to stream at home, having the lingering feelings of the pandemic/covid. Despite that, there are still amazing movies being made to this day, and A24 is a testament to that.

Lastly. There is no Alpha Man as there is no such thing as an Alpha. It's a recently made up term that's incorrectly associated with wolves. These people don't know how wolves actually work in the wild. Alpha is just a modern term to pander to insecure men who need a cartoonish micky mouse fantasy to aspire to and blame others while completely disregarding the how little reality their belief system is in, much like the case with how wolves really work.

What I greatly dislike is that you're anonymous. To in any way identify with your view of masculinity makes it incredibly easy for me to to point how unmasculine within your you are. It's always the case because inherently the alpha masculine identity is destructive in real life, unachievable and cartoonish. But you can't refute this or tell me who you are without revealing yourself. You can lie on the internet. I have no intention of insulting you. However to try to frame everything in this ideal while being unwilling to live up to it is silly and hypocritical.

These are popular because deep down men and women know this is aligned with masculine power and the imperative needs of the nature of reality. "

I guarantee you that you will not find evidence for this. Masculinity is so incredibly fluid and diverse based on year and region of the planet, that to say something like is just silly. It's simply not absolute. As for movies which is what you're talking about in that quote, it's a male dominated industry that chooses stories for men, edits them for the male eye and frames them for the straight male. Even when some people state there are great female action stars like that of Aliens, she's still quite literally a gender swap.


Also literally every decade there's tons of garbage that comes out with only a few classics that rise to the surface as far as music goes. Quantity is not superior to quality.

 

[User_120092]

All the bad AVNs really let you appreciate the few good ones.

 

[stevetheegg]

Broad access means participation by people of differing skill levels.

Simple ideas are best expressed in concise statements.

 

[upbutte]

Maybe a downside to anyone can develop is that there are a lot of games started and only a small percentage that are completed.

 

[XCIX99]

All the bad AVNs really let you appreciate the few good ones.

Yes, that my thinking too. I get irritated by the quantity of bad, but I love that there is a place for them to get made (most don't finish) because it also is a place the good ones can shine. I might be too positive about the good VN/games because some of them to me seem better stories than can be found on Netflix, amazon prime, Hulu, Hollywood movies, and much of fiction writing these days.

 

[Zilcho]

Hear hear! You nailed it. I'm one of those fellows who grind through the slop, knowing it's terrible but seeing the magic made ad hoc. From a similar generation, we were used to that kind of thing already and we ate it up. A lot of it was low quality, a lot of it was campy or "outdated" even for the time, but when you look at the tastes of the mythical "modern audience" that Hollywood and AAA studios proudly claim to pander to, it's no better. It's arguably worse, even.

The opportunity present in self-published, one-man operations to buck the zeitgeist and the contemporary trends is enormous, and for those of us allowing mordern media to fizzle out with a whimper, places like these are a refuge for the things that are truly interesting and unique.

 

[Seo In-guk]

I mention music and I agree with that, in Latin America they prefer reggaeton and when listening to their lyrics and voices with all respects it makes me sick (everyone's preference but the inconvenience is that it puts high volume and in front of you it is obvious that one is going to get angry and feel disgusted listening to that music)
Movies are no longer like before, everything changes what can be expected and now that AI is evolving and the future will be movies only for AI as now porn games with AI are coming out

 

[Magooo]

So basically authentic but bad quality > sterile but good quality. I concur. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack and if you're successful, you can enjoy the authentic pearls that stand out from the crowd in terms of quality.