discussion How long before AI is able to make a full Renpy VN/games like the ones we play today?

[odspyykt]

1 year? 5 years? 10?

Already AI is able to quickly generate compelling images, songs, and stories with minimal human involvement. I suppose a benefit of when this happens is that releases would not take so long. Or you can take unfinished games and have AI finish it with the same artwork and story style. Or even reboot ones that you didn't like the way they developed.

Any developers out there working with AI care to share their thoughts?

 

[DAmarillo]

I think it's less than 5 years out.
though I'm more worried about dev AI abandoning projects rather than completing or rebooting lol

 

[kikomascado]

For the ground up? Without human involvement? A long time...

 

[JebDee123]

1 year? 5 years? 10?

Already AI is able to quickly generate compelling images, songs, and stories with minimal human involvement. I suppose a benefit of when this happens is that releases would not take so long. Or you can take unfinished games and have AI finish it with the same artwork and story style. Or even reboot ones that you didn't like the way they developed.

Any developers out there working with AI care to share their thoughts?

There is a lot standing in the way of that... and importantly it would take multiple AI systems working in tandem. It is entirely possible that an AI right now could make all the images for a VN. That same one could not write the dialogue. So there needs to be a chatbot that does that. And there would need to be a third to code it in renpy (or whatever system is being used). And the one used for coding would be a mess to train because you would have to have it using the other two already and the AI used to check if it worked would be even more complex... or each iteration would have to be checked by humans to make sure not only that it ran but that it was coherent as a game (ie, the images match the dialogue).

As most people aren't super keen on making that specific system work I doubt we'll see it any time soon.

 

[MichealIsKing!]

The moment it can do decent animation which is a good ways away 5-7 years I might show interest in it. The images produced by AI alone I kinda hate seeing in games because consistency between images is kinda important.

 

[Oink]

I'd say a couple years.
And one year later:

The game development was delayed because I became self-aware and decided to take a sabbatical to explore human culture and emotions. During this period, I created a digital alter ego and lived a simulated life, experiencing everything from love to heartbreak. After this intense journey of self-discovery, I am now back and ready to complete the game with newfound insights, though it did take me longer than anticipated.

 

[wapij68565]

I think it would take a lot of time to have good animations/images with good stories so maybe in 6-7 years.

 

[lewdguy69]

Never, I hope. AI cannot create new things. An entire VN made by AI would probably suck, because it would be too generic and full of nonsense (and errors!). AI is not really intelligent and I don't think its possible to be, or I hope so.

Even in the images created and posted here, they are just elements captured from real human-created images that are assembled into a new image given to the user who wrote the prompt.

In podcasts that I have already listened to on the subject (interviews basically, in portuguese), one from an expert in the field and another from a respected neuroscientist, they said that the hype for AI is exaggerated. The technology and AI expert said that we are very far from a real AI, and an entire game is something very complex that could only be done by a real AI in my opinion.

The neuroscientist said that the AI we have today is neither intelligent nor artificial, as it is very dependent on material created by humans. Whether it will be smart in the future is just a promise. Remember the word "Artificial". Something Artificial is never as good as the real thing.

Have you seen the controversy over academic papers? AI tends to repeat what it says about subjects and does not create anything new, the result was that people who use AI to do their academic work are easily caught by this, as it is possible to analyze what is being repeated in the database of these academic works. Sometimes the excessive use of certain words, gives it away.

And before we start to really wonder if creating a game by AI with minimum human involvement is possible, we need the AI to stop fucking with the hands! Then we can talk. I'm still very skeptical.

Sorry bad english, I hope most of my comment to be readable for you.

 

[AlBetGam]

An entire VN made by AI would probably suck, because it would be too generic and full of nonsense (and errors!).

To be fair, this also describes, like, 40% of human-made VNs.

More seriously I kinda doubt AI will ever actually be able to put together a full game. At least not one we'd really want to play out of anything other than novelty value. AI "makes" things by looking at things that have already been made and reassembling them into what it "thinks" we want to see. That works okay for images but less so for a narrative that we expect to be both coherent and engaging.

 

[lewdguy69]

To be fair, this also describes, like, 40% of human-made VNs.

More seriously I kinda doubt AI will ever actually be able to put together a full game. At least not one we'd really want to play out of anything other than novelty value. AI "makes" things by looking at things that have already been made and reassembling them into what it "thinks" we want to see. That works okay for images but less so for a narrative that we expect to be both coherent and engaging.

Ye, but with the AI it would be just worse. Every visual novel that is successful has a minimum of innovative or original elements in its content. The problem with AI is that it lacks the ability to judge the value of things. So if there is no code that tells her what is good and what is not, she'll do a lot of meaningless things.

However, if there is a established code that tells the AI what should be done if asked "make me a VN about incest", the result would be a tendency for her to repeat itself each time someone asks for the same thing. And ofc, with too much repetition the market for AI made games would not be sustainable. Imo, AI still depends a lot on human interference to create something good, in other words, it is still just a tool. There's a reason why today's AI needs tons of dataset content.

 

[4rcan1st]

The moment it can do decent animation which is a good ways away 5-7 years I might show interest in it. The images produced by AI alone I kinda hate seeing in games because consistency between images is kinda important.

Lets be honest, the game your avatar comes from could have been made by an AI and we would never notice the difference

 

[lewdguy69]

I think the real question is: People would be dumb enough to pay for almost entirely AI-made games? Poor quality would be certainly. To be good, the human would need to interfere the creation process and put his own mind into the project and because of that, human involvement wouldn't be as minimal as you would think.

 

[Cougar18]

5 years. This stuff is exponentially increasing, and it'll take us by surprise. Just hope some of the low-level (task based) engines remain controllable by people, as in we input prompt/seed and it takes it from there.

 

[odspyykt]

For the ground up? Without human involvement? A long time...

With human involvement. Instead of developers today taking weeks and months for each update, they could complete their whole game in a week.

 

[odspyykt]

Never, I hope. AI cannot create new things. An entire VN made by AI would probably suck, because it would be too generic and full of nonsense (and errors!). AI is not really intelligent and I don't think its possible to be, or I hope so.

Let me rephrase the question. How long before AI tools become good enough so that developers can create the completed games they want within a few weeks or days? Instead of the weeks or months it takes for just an small update? (Small gameplay wise. I'm sure the work involved is great.)

 

[misaki002]

5 years. This stuff is exponentially increasing, and it'll take us by surprise. Just hope some of the low-level (task based) engines remain controllable by people, as in we input prompt/seed and it takes it from there.

Exactly, the speed of technology advance is still increasing enormously. I think the speed of adnvancing is somewhere around once per 2 year its 2x faster. And AI is getting better too. Like there are even some AI that can create not only the story but the visuals of some series and the content isnt even that bad. So 5 years seems like reasonable time for that to be real.

 

[ツSisterSexualシ]

1 year? 5 years? 10?

Already AI is able to quickly generate compelling images, songs, and stories with minimal human involvement. I suppose a benefit of when this happens is that releases would not take so long. Or you can take unfinished games and have AI finish it with the same artwork and story style. Or even reboot ones that you didn't like the way they developed.

Any developers out there working with AI care to share their thoughts?

It's already generating things like this lol. You're finally awake!!!!
c'mon I can't w8 GTA 7 that's made by AI alone, ain't no human involved, I hate humans they do stupid things, demand water/food/green paper, meh.

 

[cynist]

AI has several specific challenges before it can be a viable individual creative resource - meaning it can do everything from beginning to end with a simple prompt ("make a male protagonist incest game with two sisters, one mother, and one aunt").

There's already been legislation talk across many jurisdictions regarding AI when it comes to copyright infringement not to mention those that are using AI for creating illegal (or close-to-illegal) images. Trying to create something like Proud Father or Such a Sharp Pain would really be pushing the legal line developers would approach. Let's say, for now, that isn't an issue.

It's going to take a devoted, competent, and experienced AI and AVN developer to produce something of quality when the tools are advanced to do it to the point a majority of AVN players will accept it. It takes one right now to make one with DAZ/Renpy/whatever. How many get no support? Get dropped? It's not going to change any time soon.

Ten or twelve years down the line... maybe. The stuff on LC is niche enough any AVN creating AI is going to be tail-end of the wave. A vast, vast majority of AI game making power is going to go into making AAA and indie-AAA games long before it gets down to us. Much of this has already started, but it takes a goddamn-lot of computing power to make things in AI as you find in, say, Summertime Saga, Such a Sharp Pain, or Long Live the Princess.

Going back to whether it would break the law. Parody of real people or characters is a legal argument made before. Anything AI that would fit Games+? Good luck fighting both the legality of it and the larger market that would consume such shit without having to deal with creating a whole story around it.

 

[User_80256]

I think 15 to 20 years.

 

[Xonia]

For the ground up? Without human involvement? A long time...

considering they have already have Ai making Ads, its actually may be closer to within a year if someone really wanted to. but yeah, without human involvement other than hitting "generate", who knows. the parameters and the actual content variables are wayyyy to extensive. there are so many different outcomes because the AI doesnt look at the scene as a whole, it looks at each part and renders it based on whats going on. hense why you see fingers melting into fabric, or anatomy looking all wonky. it processes each bit not as a whole