discussion Complete VN Ren'Py DAZ The Guardian [v1.0.0] [Blackheart Games]

[Azkosel]

Shouldn't this be spoilered?

no, it;s isn;t even remotely new information.

 

[bakaboy]

Ok, fuck it. Was it so neccessary to open one more fucking secret that Lillith keeps from Marcus? 50% of the TG was about it and i hoped that we will close that door in the end and at the TG2 will have the new begining, but no. The same fucking main riddle, eat it. Upset.

Honestly, love the dev and his games, but fuck the endless riddles. For fuck sake.

 

[Beduin123]

Ok, fuck it. Was it so neccessary to open one more fucking secret that Lillith keeps from Marcus? 50% of the TG was about it and i hoped that we will close that door in the end and at the TG2 will have the new begining, but no. The same fucking main riddle, eat it. Upset.

Honestly, love the dev and his games, but fuck the endless riddles. For fuck s

Well, that's the Seath's writing style, like it or not. For some reason he believes that the more plot twists the story contains the better. To the point that the whole story loses any kind of feasibility and nobody cares for the plot. All his games are quite messy in this sense.
IMO, TG would be so much better without all these unnecessary artificial plot twists.
But this update got me even deeper. With the new revelation

Spoiler

that the Twins are not the Lilith's children and therefore not MC's grandchildren. Before TG was the only game where the MC could fuck his grand-grandaughter (the Twins' daughter). Now this is not the case any more

The whole story lost the remaining attraction for me. Why does the Dev even need this shit? Does it bring anything new to the story? On the contrary, it takes away some of its best uniquness and kink.
Next time in TG2 we will find out that all the girls are not the MC's children, that they are all transsexuals and that Lilith was abducted by aliens and replaced with a reptiloid?
Fuck it, I probably will still play TG2 but don't have much hope for the plot any more.
Also in this last update some of the models were changed and as much as the previous version of the adult Twins was as hot as hell, in this one they are average at best.
This is a perfect example of how the Dev can ruin their own game.

 

[ccxvidonaferens]

no, it;s isn;t even remotely new information.

Well it was new to me. I am going through the story for the first time and where I am at the MC is still wondering why Nat doesn't remember having Kass and there has not yet been a resolution to it yet. Just because something may be old news to you doesn't mean that is the same for everyone.

 

[bakaboy]

Well, that's the Seath's writing style, like it or not. For some reason he believes that the more plot twists the story contains the better. To the point that the whole story looses any kind of feasibility and nobody cares for the plot. All his games are quite messy in this sense.
IMO, TG would be so much better without all these unnecessary artificial plot twists.
But this update got me even deeper. With the new revelation

Spoiler

that the Twins are not the Lilith's children and therefore not MC's grandchildren. Before TG was the only game where the MC could fuck his grand-grandaughter (the Twins' daughter). Now this is not the case any more

The whole story lost the remaining attraction for me. Why does the Dev even need this shit? Does it bring anything new to the story? On the contrary, it takes away some of its best uniquness and kink.
Next time in TG2 we will find out that all the girls are not the MC's children, that they are all transsexuals and that Lilith was abducted by aliens and replaced with a reptiloid?
Fuck it, I probably will still play TG2 but don't have much hope for the plot any more.
Also in this last update some of the models were changed and as much as the previous version of the adult Twins was as hot as hell, in this one they are average at best.
This is a perfect example of how the Dev can ruin their own game.

I am not against plot twists, i even like it, the story is more juicy with it. But with all riddles there is always exact condition, that you shouldn't keep too long. One riddle should be replaced with another. So, i hoped that we will change the person who will be covered in this new riddle as well. Because it's pretty annoying when you're trying to reach some understanding with one character during all the season just to realise that we will eat the same food in the next season.

I hope that at the early start of the second season, MC will meet his sister aka daughter face to face and she will tell him everything at all (all what she has in her head) and then we will understand that there is new huge riddle but with another person or organisation, wich will lead us to story where ALL the family trying to resolve it.

 

[bakaboy]

Well it was new to me. I am going through the story for the first time and where I am at the MC is still wondering why Nat doesn't remember having Kass and there has not yet been a resolution to it yet. Just because something may be old news to you doesn't mean that is the same for everyone.

So you probably shouldn't watch the latest comments on the game page with tag completed before you also will complete it.

 

[IRedI]

Seath's games remind me the movie " The Blair Witch Project" . There's , suspense, "terror" , a bad story and worse ending. "Suspence"

 

[Beduin123]

I am not against plot twists, i even like it, the story is more juicy with it. But with all riddles there is always exact condition, that you shouldn't keep too long. One riddle should be replaced with another. So, i hoped that we will change the person who will be covered in this new riddle as well. Because it's pretty annoying when you're trying to reach some understanding with one character during all the season just to realise that we will eat the same food in the next season.

I hope that at the early start of the second season, MC will meet his sister aka daughter face to face and she will tell him everything at all (all what she has in her head) and then we will understand that there is new huge riddle but with another person or organisation, wich will lead us to story where ALL the family trying to resolve it.

OK, I misunderstood you. I thought your gripe is the same as mine. But it appears that you fume at unresolved misteries. I'm OK with cliffhangers.
I, on the other hand, fume at the plot taking stupid turns that are neither logical nor necessary. And in particular with the Twins' mother Seath has just killed one of his best plot discoveries that, I know, many liked, including myself.
So, OK we have one twist about the Twins' parents which is still logical and rather cool, but it is negated by another twist which is totally unnecessary and kills all the mood. Just for the sake of introducing even more twists. Weird.

 

[Salamango]

OK, I misunderstood you. I thought your gripe is the same as mine. But it appears that you fume at unresolved misteries. I'm OK with cliffhangers.
I, on the other hand, fume at the plot taking stupid turns that are neither logical nor necessary. And in particular with the Twins' mother Seath has just killed one of his best plot discoveries that, I know, many liked, including myself.
So, OK we have one twist about the Twins' parents which is still logical and rather cool, but it is negated by another twist which is totally unnecessary and kills all the mood. Just for the sake of introducing even more twists. Weird.

As I understand it, the last third of the game is the same schizophasia as in the game about the motel?

 

[MicoJive]

Well, that's the Seath's writing style, like it or not. For some reason he believes that the more plot twists the story contains the better. To the point that the whole story looses any kind of feasibility and nobody cares for the plot. All his games are quite messy in this sense.
IMO, TG would be so much better without all these unnecessary artificial plot twists.
But this update got me even deeper. With the new revelation

Spoiler

that the Twins are not the Lilith's children and therefore not MC's grandchildren. Before TG was the only game where the MC could fuck his grand-grandaughter (the Twins' daughter). Now this is not the case any more

The whole story lost the remaining attraction for me. Why does the Dev even need this shit? Does it bring anything new to the story? On the contrary, it takes away some of its best uniquness and kink.
Next time in TG2 we will find out that all the girls are not the MC's children, that they are all transsexuals and that Lilith was abducted by aliens and replaced with a reptiloid?
Fuck it, I probably will still play TG2 but don't have much hope for the plot any more.
Also in this last update some of the models were changed and as much as the previous version of the adult Twins was as hot as hell, in this one they are average at best.
This is a perfect example of how the Dev can ruin their own game.

This isnt meant to be a shot at the dev but it kind of feels like listening to a kid tell a story with a whole bunch of "and thennnn, and thennnnn" where they desperately want to tell you a cool / interesting story but are making it up as they go. A story doesnt NEED a cliffhanger, or mystery to be good, and if they are the only thing used to try and keep people interested there will be issues.

Like I liked the sister, sympathized with her and felt sorry for her. She had her arc in the middle of the story and had some redemption to her character which was great. Then the end happened and suddenly shes supposed to be the bad guy and all the feeling sorry for her to start with / her arc was for what, nothing? Now shes trying to pit the girls against the MC by keeping shit from him for what? More manufactured drama?

It just seemed like there was decent direction at the start of the novel, the resolution to that direction happened but the dev didint want to end the game where it should have so they just made up a bunch of shit haphazardly and just "and thennn'd" his story so it wouldnt be over.

 

[Beduin123]

As I understand it, the last third of the game is the same schizophasia as in the game about the motel?

Yes, more or less. It is not that violent but equally inconsistent with a lot of crossovers with his other games and weird plot lines leading to nowhere.

it kind of feels like listening to a kid tell a story with a whole bunch of "and thennnn, and thennnnn" where they desperately want to tell you a cool / interesting story but are making it up as they go.

I have the same feeling playing the Blackheart games that the story is made up in real time on the go. Some other games (for example Proud Father) also have this feeling but they feature much simpler plot which allows the Dev to avoid such big mess as in the case of this game and keep it under control more or less.

 

[Salamango]

Играя в игры Blackheart, у меня такое же ощущение, что история придумывается в реальном времени на ходу. В некоторых других играх (например, Proud Father) тоже есть такое ощущение, но сюжет в них гораздо проще, что позволяет разработчику избежать такого большого беспорядка, как в случае с этой игрой, и более или менее держать его под контролем.

if his games had been released recently, I could have assumed that they were written by a neural network, which, after a long generation, begins to hallucinate.

 

[bakaboy]

OK, I misunderstood you. I thought your gripe is the same as mine. But it appears that you fume at unresolved misteries. I'm OK with cliffhangers.
I, on the other hand, fume at the plot taking stupid turns that are neither logical nor necessary. And in particular with the Twins' mother Seath has just killed one of his best plot discoveries that, I know, many liked, including myself.
So, OK we have one twist about the Twins' parents which is still logical and rather cool, but it is negated by another twist which is totally unnecessary and kills all the mood. Just for the sake of introducing even more twists. Weird.

Oh, i think we shouldn't pray for a lot of logic here. If you will remember the stuff with ghost rings in the end of the season and spoiler about ghost keeper

Spoiler

(i suppose it is the wife of the MC from PA)

So, i suppose we will see a lot more some crazy things

 

[Beduin123]

Oh, i think we shouldn't pray for a lot of logic here.

I don't hope for a lot, I would be content with some at least

 

[Azkosel]

I still find it interesting that people keep thinking that Lilith is Marcus' daughter. This was a story told by his mother, well known to be a pathological liar, Why would people believe much, if anything, she ever said?

 

[BadJM]

I still find it interesting that people keep thinking that Lilith is Marcus' daughter. This was a story told by his mother, well known to be a pathological liar, Why would people believe much, if anything, she ever said?

Why wouldn't we believe her? She was a cool ass mom, making sure her son didn't grow up to be a virgin loser.
All jokes aside, we the players can only work with the information that the game gives us and it seems like she started having sex with the mc when he was very young and the mc in the flashbacks looks a lot older than lilith. It's the BH universe. Anything is possible.

 

[MicoJive]

I still find it interesting that people keep thinking that Lilith is Marcus' daughter. This was a story told by his mother, well known to be a pathological liar, Why would people believe much, if anything, she ever said?

At this point it wouldnt surprise me at all if that was her big secret that she wont tell the MC and Ill be so disappointed if thats the case.

 

[DoobieDoobieDoooo]

Well as it stands, what would be the biggest plot twist? That's going to be Lillith's dad.

Therefore, her dad is Anton Chigurh from No Country for Old Men.

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[Tiur]

This isnt meant to be a shot at the dev but it kind of feels like listening to a kid tell a story with a whole bunch of "and thennnn, and thennnnn" where they desperately want to tell you a cool / interesting story but are making it up as they go. A story doesnt NEED a cliffhanger, or mystery to be good, and if they are the only thing used to try and keep people interested there will be issues.

Like I liked the sister, sympathized with her and felt sorry for her. She had her arc in the middle of the story and had some redemption to her character which was great. Then the end happened and suddenly shes supposed to be the bad guy and all the feeling sorry for her to start with / her arc was for what, nothing? Now shes trying to pit the girls against the MC by keeping shit from him for what? More manufactured drama?

It just seemed like there was decent direction at the start of the novel, the resolution to that direction happened but the dev didint want to end the game where it should have so they just made up a bunch of shit haphazardly and just "and thennn'd" his story so it wouldnt be over.

This right here is why I never actually managed to get around to playing 0.12R, and can't bring myself to care about the completed game, despite having enjoyed the game for a long time. 0.12 (non-R) was the last version I played, and it feels like at this point, it would be more of a chore to play for an unsatisfying reward, which is just not what I want in an AVN. I was able to ignore the BHH/SWP connections for the most part, as annoying as they were, but I was getting the sense that this game is modeled after the concept that nothing good can happen to Marcus without a twist fucking it up later on, and that gets really un-fun after it happens several times, and it's massively un-fun to have in an ending.

 

[SoftheW]

The latest?

The latest depend on your device.
What I'm interested in knowing is if you see something inside the Android/data folder, or it says "no file"‽