1 Year of Service
While I vastly prefer sandboxes,most of them feel like a vn with grinding, comparing to Love and Sex, for example, that game would be almost impossible to turn into a VN due to the lack of different paths and options
Thoughts on VN vs. Sandbox
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1 Year of Service
Here is a list of common sandbox game annoyances, ranked approximately by increasing gravity.
- There is no alternative VN mode and no gallery with unlock cheats.
- NPCs are sometimes in two locations at the same time. A common case is that at certain times you can't enter the bathroom because some female character is locked in there. But you can also find her in the kitchen. After which she is still in the bathroom.
- You can always see where you can click to do something, but it's not always transparent what happens when you click there. E.g., a door that is marked as an exit from a hallway is actually not an exit from the building but an entry to an inner room. OR Moving around is made unnecessarily complicated. E.g., each time you enter a certain hallway, you are first looking away from the most important doors and must click some active field in order to turn around and see these doors.
- Some active areas that you can click are not easy to find. We are expected to go on a pixel hunt.
- Every day is divided into more than two periods.
- Every day is divided into more than three periods.
- The game keeps track of the days of the week and some events only occur in a certain location on a certain day of the week in a certain period. For important/blocking events of this nature we get hints from NPCs and can always look them up in a dynamic hint system.
- The game keeps track of the days of the week and some events only occur in a certain location on a certain day of the week in a certain period. For important/blocking events of this nature we get one hint from an NPC, but it will not normally be repeated and there is no hint system.
- Sundays or Saturday/Sunday are different than regular weekdays, but not sufficiently different for the distinction to be more than an annoyance.
- The various plot threads are so strongly detached from each other that you can start and finish one, then start and finish the second, etc. Or something close to this. As a result, you can easily run into a situation at the end, where only one plot thread is left and there is nothing else new to see. You have to skip entire days to get to the next blocking event.
- Same as the previous problem, and the game starts 'forgetting' what you have done if you do things in an order not expected by the developer. Depending on the order in which you go through the plot threads, you can meet a person who is dead or temporarily absent, you can meet a love interest for the first time again after having married her weeks ago, etc.
- Same as the previous problem, and the game gives you no feedback whatsoever when you are doing things in a weird order. Everything seems to be fine until suddenly you have to skip a lot to get to the only new event that is still available, and then the same again and again.
- The game makes it very hard to know when you have reached the end of the current content. Due to the lack of a hint system, you have to visit every location on every weekday in every period to check that there is no new event there.
- Same as the previous problem, plus randomness or the existence of a stat system makes it impossible to ever be sure. Maybe there is a blocking event Tuesday morning at the school cafeteria, but you haven't seen it yet because 1) it has a probability of 20% and you haven't been lucky yet, or 2) your charisma is less than 100, or 3) your strength is too great.
- You can miss major plot threads by doing other plot threads too early, and there is no way to know that this is going to happen or identify the situation once it has happened.
- Monotony or any of the last few problems begin already at the start of the game.
My problem with sandbox games is that these problems aren't rare. The best sandbox games only have half a dozen or so of these problems. Many have most of them.
- With good VNs, I play to the current end, and when there is an update I either continue where I stopped or play again from the beginning to the new end.
- With good sandboxes (relatively good ones; I haven't encountered a good sandbox game yet, unless you count things like RPGs encoded in Ren'Py), I play until I get frustrated because new events are getting too rare. When there is an update, I will download it only if 1) I like the graphics and 2a) the game has a gallery that can be unlocked without playing or 2b) it is implemented in Ren'Py and has videos or at least complete images (not assembled from sprites) that I can find in the image directory or extract from an RPA archive, for viewing outside the game. I almost never continue playing a sandbox game after having once stopped, not even after an update. (The only exception is Harem Hotel. It starts great but peters out with many of the typical end game problems. But I am so invested in the story that I continue playing after updates. Even so, it would still be better as an AVN.)
It's worth noting that the sandbox experience can be very different depending on when you start playing a sandbox game during its development history. If you start when it is already very substantial, you are more likely to do things in an unexpected order, e.g. by following a thread that was introduced in update 20 before having done even 10% of what came before it. Developers tend not to think of this possibility, and their fans also tend not to notice because most are familiar with the order in which things were introduced.
- There is no alternative VN mode and no gallery with unlock cheats.
- NPCs are sometimes in two locations at the same time. A common case is that at certain times you can't enter the bathroom because some female character is locked in there. But you can also find her in the kitchen. After which she is still in the bathroom.
- You can always see where you can click to do something, but it's not always transparent what happens when you click there. E.g., a door that is marked as an exit from a hallway is actually not an exit from the building but an entry to an inner room. OR Moving around is made unnecessarily complicated. E.g., each time you enter a certain hallway, you are first looking away from the most important doors and must click some active field in order to turn around and see these doors.
- Some active areas that you can click are not easy to find. We are expected to go on a pixel hunt.
- Every day is divided into more than two periods.
- Every day is divided into more than three periods.
- The game keeps track of the days of the week and some events only occur in a certain location on a certain day of the week in a certain period. For important/blocking events of this nature we get hints from NPCs and can always look them up in a dynamic hint system.
- The game keeps track of the days of the week and some events only occur in a certain location on a certain day of the week in a certain period. For important/blocking events of this nature we get one hint from an NPC, but it will not normally be repeated and there is no hint system.
- Sundays or Saturday/Sunday are different than regular weekdays, but not sufficiently different for the distinction to be more than an annoyance.
- The various plot threads are so strongly detached from each other that you can start and finish one, then start and finish the second, etc. Or something close to this. As a result, you can easily run into a situation at the end, where only one plot thread is left and there is nothing else new to see. You have to skip entire days to get to the next blocking event.
- Same as the previous problem, and the game starts 'forgetting' what you have done if you do things in an order not expected by the developer. Depending on the order in which you go through the plot threads, you can meet a person who is dead or temporarily absent, you can meet a love interest for the first time again after having married her weeks ago, etc.
- Same as the previous problem, and the game gives you no feedback whatsoever when you are doing things in a weird order. Everything seems to be fine until suddenly you have to skip a lot to get to the only new event that is still available, and then the same again and again.
- The game makes it very hard to know when you have reached the end of the current content. Due to the lack of a hint system, you have to visit every location on every weekday in every period to check that there is no new event there.
- Same as the previous problem, plus randomness or the existence of a stat system makes it impossible to ever be sure. Maybe there is a blocking event Tuesday morning at the school cafeteria, but you haven't seen it yet because 1) it has a probability of 20% and you haven't been lucky yet, or 2) your charisma is less than 100, or 3) your strength is too great.
- You can miss major plot threads by doing other plot threads too early, and there is no way to know that this is going to happen or identify the situation once it has happened.
- Monotony or any of the last few problems begin already at the start of the game.
My problem with sandbox games is that these problems aren't rare. The best sandbox games only have half a dozen or so of these problems. Many have most of them.
- With good VNs, I play to the current end, and when there is an update I either continue where I stopped or play again from the beginning to the new end.
- With good sandboxes (relatively good ones; I haven't encountered a good sandbox game yet, unless you count things like RPGs encoded in Ren'Py), I play until I get frustrated because new events are getting too rare. When there is an update, I will download it only if 1) I like the graphics and 2a) the game has a gallery that can be unlocked without playing or 2b) it is implemented in Ren'Py and has videos or at least complete images (not assembled from sprites) that I can find in the image directory or extract from an RPA archive, for viewing outside the game. I almost never continue playing a sandbox game after having once stopped, not even after an update. (The only exception is Harem Hotel. It starts great but peters out with many of the typical end game problems. But I am so invested in the story that I continue playing after updates. Even so, it would still be better as an AVN.)
It's worth noting that the sandbox experience can be very different depending on when you start playing a sandbox game during its development history. If you start when it is already very substantial, you are more likely to do things in an unexpected order, e.g. by following a thread that was introduced in update 20 before having done even 10% of what came before it. Developers tend not to think of this possibility, and their fans also tend not to notice because most are familiar with the order in which things were introduced.
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8 Months of Service
In general I'd say most eroge in the sandbox format should actually be VNs, because in most cases, you just end up with a search for the correct location, while 99 % of the other locations feature nothing.
It's an option if the story is very convoluted and offers multiple path which you can follow parallel,
nearly all locations may feature variational or random scene, or
it is part of the "game" mechanics though this only applies to very specifiv cases.
It's an option if the story is very convoluted and offers multiple path which you can follow parallel,
nearly all locations may feature variational or random scene, or
it is part of the "game" mechanics though this only applies to very specifiv cases.
1 Year of Service
VN's every single time. I come for a solid story WITH sex not to play with pornographic action figures.
7 Months of Service
Most sandbox games are crap. Anything that requires me to see the same scene dozens of times is just plain boring. There have been a handful of sandbox games that I have enjoyed, but they are few and far between. I personally prefer VNs with an interesting plot and decently written character arcs. The best adult games are engaging even if you have to wait for that hot animated scene. In fact, it makes those scenes even hotter if you are invested in the character. Even the best sandbox games are limited because they are, by their very nature, disruptive to the pacing of the story.
2 Years of Service
Grinding always sucks and if "sandbox" means pick the ONE place to go to advance the story, it's bullshit - better to not even use the sandbox form in that case. Unless it's real open world, never use sandbox. And never include grinding.
1 Year of Service
I tend to prefer Sandbox, even the illusion of choice is better to me than just clicking through the story.
That being said, my favourite game is a linear visual novel, so what do I know
That being said, my favourite game is a linear visual novel, so what do I know
7 Months of Service
I tend to prefer Sandbox, even the illusion of choice is better to me than just clicking through the story.
That being said, my favourite game is a linear visual novel, so what do I know
7 Months of Service
The best VN's have elements of choice that affect the story. You can choose your own path in a way. 0f course, you don't have the freedom you would have in a sandbox game. It's really comes down to personal preference, I guess. Regardless of which you prefer, strong characters are at the core of a good game.
2 Years of Service
Problem is most sandbox you don't really have freedom, as they are set that there is only ONE choice that continues and often have boring grinding. True open world sandbox are very rare.
7 Months of Service
You make a good point.
U
i hate when there is an insane grind, its nice to just have minimal bs and just pure story and scenes imo
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