discussion Is lolibaba a loli or a midget?

[Aerythox]

so I've has this debate with a friend where we contemplate whether a lolibaba is a loli or a midget, "I mean of course it's a loli! it's in the name 'lolibaba'", this is my friend's rebuttal, well this may be a sound argument, but first let's consider the line between a loli and a midget, a loli is a animated child, and a midget is a small adult, so in literal definition wouldn't a lolibaba be a midget? but it is portrayed as an animated child, so that's where the contradiction comes in. Now I would like to ask all of you, is a lolibaba a loli or a midget? (Characterizing it as it's own term is boring and doesn't leave room for critical thinking so I DON'T allow it ( ￣＾￣))

 

[S7aard]

so I've has this debate with a friend where we contemplate whether a lolibaba is a loli or a midget, "I mean of course it's a loli! it's in the name 'lolibaba'", this is my friend's rebuttal, well this may be a sound argument, but first let's consider the line between a loli and a midget, a loli is a animated child, and a midget is a small adult, so in literal definition wouldn't a lolibaba be a midget? but it is portrayed as an animated child, so that's where the contradiction comes in. Now I would like to ask all of you, is a loli or a midget? (Characterizing it as it's own term is boring and doesn't leave room for critical thinking so I DON'T allow it ( ￣＾￣))

If it looks like an adult, it's a midget. If it doesn't, it's a loli. Easy as that

 

[Aerythox]

this is contradictory by nature so if you guys think about it, it's basically a paradox. The Lolibaba Paradox!!!!

 

[Kernist]

If only there was one word which would describe something like lolibaba, hmm. Maybe at one point someone will figure something out...

On a side note, Lolibabas of Mayohiga is a cool little game.

Edit: Ok, fine, if you are dissatisfied with "it is its own term" for whatever reason, I think midget refers strictly to size while loli refers to whole appearance. When you see a midget you can tell it's an adult in a small body, when you see a loli you see childlike appearance, so I would go with "lolibabas are lolis". Still, someone may argue that it's only loli if both appearance and behavior is child like, therefore term "lolibaba" was created hinting at childlike appearance and adult behavior.

In summary, lolibabas are neither, but it's more a loli than a midget because the only thing lolibabas and midgets have in common is size, while lolis and lolibabas have whole physical appearance in common.

 

[Rion89]

Lolibaba will never aging, they always look the same since they're already a baba (grandma).
While midget can get aging, since they're just a normal human with child like body proportions.

 

[gdyah]

I mean I wanna say they're a midget, or just underdeveloped

 

[kamikazejihad]

Loli baba is pretty much the 1000 years old vampire loli meme

 

[max331]

i mean lolibaba has loli in it so

​

 

[Shadowneya]

Wasn't it an argument about a 3000 year old demon Loli that they even thought of lolibaba but left the demon alone since she acted like a fetish "brat princess with extreme intelligence" making her fall under the criteria of a Loli...

 

[Folkvangr]

Loli is a term for appeareance, if it looks the part then it is a loli

 

[Frigoli]

I spoiler'd the post to cut down on post-length when page first loads.

I'll preface my answer on this a bit by saying that you're extremely unlikely to get a straight answer asking a question like this here. By that I mean, it's a term born in the 90s-00s from a specific Japanese subculture. You're never getting a coherent answer on that unless you go speak to someone from that specific Japanese subculture who was there in the 90s-00s. Which you generally aren't going to find on a site like this.

Spoiler: The short of it

However, I'm kind of a freak among western Lolicons in that I'm obssessed with researching the history of Lolicon and have gathered a lot of information straight from the horse's mouth.

The short of it is that in the 90s, Loli changed definition to refer to a bodytype rather than an age group. It was specifically because of this change that Boob-Loli and Loli-Baba even came to exist in the first place. So, yes. Loli-Baba is Loli. It's just an offshoot of Loli.

You said something about a "Loli-Baba Paradox," but that's not a thing. Paradoxes, I mean. Those don't exist. If you encounter a paradox, you're either missing information or looking at it wrong. For example, an early nomad might see a large rock sink to the bottom of a river, then see a large tree trunk float in that same river and call it "The paradox of floating." But there is no paradox there, humanity just didn't understand the science behind buoyancy yet. There's a reason scientists and philosophers assume paradoxes can be solved, its only a paradox because the solution hasn't been found and widely-recognized, yet.

Hopefully the spoiler'd long of it gets you the information you're missing.

Spoiler: The long of it.

The long of it is that when Loli first became a thing in the 70s, it was just a legal loophole for ****philia and nothing more. Back then, Lolicon was split into several age groups.

Lolita Complex (11-14)

Alice Complex (7-10)

Heidi Complex (0-6).

After some extremely momentous events in the 80s that I'll skip to keep this short, it transformed into a whole sub-culture with a pro-worker's rights and pro-creative freedoms ideology. (Normally I'd skip over that part since the 80s were a complex time for us, but its relevant to this discussion.) Basically, there was a man named Takeshi Shudo. He was making a magical girl anime called Minky Momo, an anime that was a personal creative dream of his to make. Then, disaster struck and a toy company pulled support and merchandising deals for the anime, which caused the show to go under. Out of frustration, Shudo ended Minky Momo's abrupt final episode by having Minky Momo get run over and killed by a toy truck.

Shudo then announced the series was over before its original planned episode count. Then, suddenly, a huge influx of merchandise sales came in that meant Minky Momo could resume with a season 3 and properly finish this time. The sales came from adult ****s/Lolicons who wanted to support Shudo and Minky Momo till the end. This was seen as extremely controversial in Japan at the time, Shudo's response was "I don't care who they are or why they're supporting me. I just want to make my dream anime." Which was the first piece of public tolerance Lolicons had ever received and they ran with it, hence fighting for worker's rights and creative freedoms. This cultural change and the accomplishments achieved by it were extremely effective in getting the wider Japanese populace to accept Lolicons as non-criminals and contributing members of society.

Lolicons immortalized that huge change by making Minky Momo, a character that seamlessly blends childish body proportions with adult-like body porpotions. (Such as her thunder-thigh that were more massive than a child's thighs could ever be.) Minky Momo's specific porportions are different from those of someone with dwarfism. If you look at images of her, you'll know what I mean.

This happened at the same time Japan became one of the cultural capitals of the world in the 80s and 90s. As a result, Lolicons are goddamn near-everywhere throughout Japan's entertainment media industry from the 80s and on. There's a huge laundry list of entire corporations and genres in the video game industry alone that only exist because a Japanese Lolicon made it. (Another complex time for us that I will skip since its mostly irrelevant to the topic.)

Eventually, it got so big in Japan, that during 90s Japan, Lolicons and boob-lovers started butting heads. Mainly because the boob-lovers were upset at being called Lolicons for masturbating to giant-tittied 16-year-old highschool girls. The end of the conflict was a compromise that Lolicon would become a bodytype thing instead of an age-group thing. This change went easily because the change to a bodytype instead of an age group had already begun a decade prior when Minky Momo was immortalized as the physical blueprint for all Loli characters.

Lolicon was then re-categorized according to height and breasts size. Minky-Momo-like porportions are extremely common, but not required.

Lolicon (90cm-154cm, AAA-B cup size)

Loli-Baba (Same body requirements as Loli, but explicitly several decades old at the youngest.)

Toddlercon (Anything shorter than 90cm without being a pixie/fairy and a cup-size smaller than C.)

Pettanko, which is not really Lolicon itself, but its an important benchmark for judging Lolikko (155cm and up, cup-size AAA-B.)

Lolikko (Term for characters around the border of Lolicon and Pettanko, for example Kagamine Rin, Megumin, and Rebecca from Edgerunners are all Loli, but are also Lolikko since they're so close to the upper-limit of Loli.)

Boob-Loli (90cm-154cm, C and up cup size. Large breasted pixies/fairies with otherwise childish or Minky Momo-like faces/proportions also count.)

As an aside, my internet seems to despise this site and kept disconnecting me from it. I was only able to write this out half a sentence at a time before having to wait a minute for the page to refresh so I could resume. As a result, I might not post in this thread again just to avoid the additional headache.

 

[kellerkind987]

most people i know of are using loli as a word for a body type and not age. So i would say it's a loli if it looks like one.
That's the reason i wouldn't consider a big breasted "loli" as a loli at all