1 Year of Service
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why is it always the good great mind blowing games that get abandoned midway ?
- Thread starter rojomanuel
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1 Year of Service
Alot of games get abandoned, good and bad but it's only the ones you enjoy and keep track of that you notice being abandoned. Games with a unique premise could also just take more effort and creativity to keep going and i don't think there is enough money in porn games to get alot of devs to force them selves through those periods where it's hard to develop. It sucks though, if porn games become more supported them maybe in the future we could get more consistent development.
3 Years of Service
I don't think it is ALWAYS those. There are lots of great games that were finished, and there are lots of shit games that got abandoned.
That said, think of it this way: the games that are really good probably take A LOT more work than a shitty one, right? So wouldn't that be more tempting for someone to drop, if it's taking up that much of their time and effort?
Interestingly, I don't think I've ever even heard of any of the games you listed except the last one, so now (abandoned or not) I'm curious.
That said, think of it this way: the games that are really good probably take A LOT more work than a shitty one, right? So wouldn't that be more tempting for someone to drop, if it's taking up that much of their time and effort?
Interestingly, I don't think I've ever even heard of any of the games you listed except the last one, so now (abandoned or not) I'm curious.
3 Years of Service
Good games take a lot of effort. So when the developer finds that the work does not pay or he has other priorities, the game cannot continue at the same level and it gets abandoned.
The VN space is overcrowded so it's really hard even for good games to emerge, and most people cannot afford to work for free for a year or more.
The VN space is overcrowded so it's really hard even for good games to emerge, and most people cannot afford to work for free for a year or more.
2 Years of Service
1. It's not just them, crappy dime-a-dozen games get abandoned in droves (often they never even get a second update). But you never notice because they were never worth tracking in the first place.
2. It takes a lot of work to consistently put out a high-quality product. Just imagine the level of effort that has to go into an update of, say, Desert Stalker or Eternum vs. some low-quality barely English basically-a-slideshow AI schlock. Doing that continually (especially if it's all on your own) is likely very tiring, expensive, and time-consuming.
3. Great mind-blowing games tend to attract a significant following, and that can add a lot of stress to the creator. Hundreds of people hassling you about when the next update is, arguing or complaining about the last update, trolling or insulting you on your Discord or other page, etc can really wear you out. Paradoxically the guy making Worthless NTR Phone Game With Lousy AI Art # 329846501 probably has much less stress about his game than the creators of the games you listed.
2. It takes a lot of work to consistently put out a high-quality product. Just imagine the level of effort that has to go into an update of, say, Desert Stalker or Eternum vs. some low-quality barely English basically-a-slideshow AI schlock. Doing that continually (especially if it's all on your own) is likely very tiring, expensive, and time-consuming.
3. Great mind-blowing games tend to attract a significant following, and that can add a lot of stress to the creator. Hundreds of people hassling you about when the next update is, arguing or complaining about the last update, trolling or insulting you on your Discord or other page, etc can really wear you out. Paradoxically the guy making Worthless NTR Phone Game With Lousy AI Art # 329846501 probably has much less stress about his game than the creators of the games you listed.
1 Year of Service
It’s frustrating, especially when the devs seem active but then suddenly disappear. I suspect some devs make enough money and decide to stop. Others might simply get burnt out and choose to drop their projects. Meanwhile, some abandon very promising projects only to start new a one that racks in cash, but they never finish it.
1 Year of Service
it seems y'all agreed on the same argument which i myself partially agree with it too , but whatever the excuse is , isn't that kinda like scamming ? im pretty sure devs wont accept to switch from update to update -----> release full game at once when finished , it might not be in their favor , but disappearing after getting some amount of money from subscriptions and donations ..... without finishing a job seems like robbing people imo specially when they start another game to milk the cash from it again right after ,
2 Years of Service
That's kinda the problem with the current AVN business model. When you donate to someone's Patreon you are explicitly not buying a completed game. You're not even buying a promise of a future completed game. You're buying access to what's currently available of the game, along with whatever bonuses the creator throws in at your tier, and that's it. (Technically not even buying, you're donating to a creator you like and he just so happens to give certain things to people who donate certain amounts).
So the dev isn't really violating anything by not finishing a game.
The whole structure is honestly a really bad deal for players on a certain level, because you're paying in indefinitely with no guarantee the game will finish at all, much less a date on when it will finish. If you've been subscribed to Lessons in Love (one of the most consistent, regular, and high-quality AVNs out there, updates basically every month with significant content) at the bottom tier since the start, you've paid maybe $120 into it- the cost of a AAA game + some DLC- and you still don't have a completed game, and won't for a long time to come. And that's one of the devs I'd rate as extremely likely to finish his game. I really pity anyone paying monthly for Milfy City.
Unfortunately I don't think there's a better model currently out there. As much as I'd rather be able to buy a completed game outright, that would mean that 1. the dev has to complete the entire game with no financial support, which is really hard if you want a high quality game and 2. the game you're playing version 0.4 of right now wouldn't be available for possibly years to come.
2 Years of Service
There are several common reasons a creator will abandon an AVN.
1. They get bored or lose their muse. It happens. Creativity wanes, especially for those of us that have it burn pretty brightly for a while. When we have to take a break, and then try to come back to it... the story is just gone. It could also be they just don't like doing it anymore.
2. It's not making money. Some people get into it thinking they're going to make $10,000+ a month. It does happen, but it's super rare. It's like watching Michael Jordan play basketball in his prime and thinking, "Hey, I can do that." Most can't. They don't get the support, get upset, and quit.
3. Something happens. Whether it's a family thing, a health thing, or a Oops Prison thing, it happens. I've heard of creators dying. I've heard of them finding some kind of religion or "purity."
4. Criticism/Trolling/Poor Ratings. Just as there are humans downloading these AVNs, humans make them. Think of something you do for someone - say making your spouse/kids dinner. They take a bite and spew unencumbered vitriol, calling you horrible names and saying your food is shit and you should kill yourself. Why would anyone want to continue to go through with developing if the response was that negative? Now, LC is pretty tame in this regard, but I'm sure most of us have seen troll flames on Forget95. If you really want to see hate from people who download a freely-made project, on their own time, using their own passion, go look at FapNation. Holy shit.
There's other reasons, too. As someone said, keep in mind these are nearly 100% side/passion projects. Hobbies. It's great if it can become a way to make a living, but it is really, really difficult to get to that point without having some massive investments already paid for. Pay attention to what you support, absolutely. Also keep in mind that without support - even just a good review - most games are going to go abandoned.
While I do give my supporters some extra stuff - a small way for me to say thank you to them - and I try to be as steadfast as I can in developing, the ones that continuously stick with supporting for months on end aren't doing it for the bonuses. Some have actively refused things I've offered them. They want me to continue what I'm doing and not lose hope and the feeling I get of making something people are enjoying.
They're not paying for a finished meal. They're paying for the ingredients I have to buy to make the meal they crave.
1. They get bored or lose their muse. It happens. Creativity wanes, especially for those of us that have it burn pretty brightly for a while. When we have to take a break, and then try to come back to it... the story is just gone. It could also be they just don't like doing it anymore.
2. It's not making money. Some people get into it thinking they're going to make $10,000+ a month. It does happen, but it's super rare. It's like watching Michael Jordan play basketball in his prime and thinking, "Hey, I can do that." Most can't. They don't get the support, get upset, and quit.
3. Something happens. Whether it's a family thing, a health thing, or a Oops Prison thing, it happens. I've heard of creators dying. I've heard of them finding some kind of religion or "purity."
4. Criticism/Trolling/Poor Ratings. Just as there are humans downloading these AVNs, humans make them. Think of something you do for someone - say making your spouse/kids dinner. They take a bite and spew unencumbered vitriol, calling you horrible names and saying your food is shit and you should kill yourself. Why would anyone want to continue to go through with developing if the response was that negative? Now, LC is pretty tame in this regard, but I'm sure most of us have seen troll flames on Forget95. If you really want to see hate from people who download a freely-made project, on their own time, using their own passion, go look at FapNation. Holy shit.
There's other reasons, too. As someone said, keep in mind these are nearly 100% side/passion projects. Hobbies. It's great if it can become a way to make a living, but it is really, really difficult to get to that point without having some massive investments already paid for. Pay attention to what you support, absolutely. Also keep in mind that without support - even just a good review - most games are going to go abandoned.
From a developer's point of view, I am quite humbled and grateful for those that give a little of their hard earned money to me. While I am sure there are developers out there that "scam" in this way, remember that supporters are not forced to be supporters. If you don't want to pay, then don't. If other people want to pay a monthly amount to support content they like, that's their business. Keep an eye on your subscriptions, absolutely.
While I do give my supporters some extra stuff - a small way for me to say thank you to them - and I try to be as steadfast as I can in developing, the ones that continuously stick with supporting for months on end aren't doing it for the bonuses. Some have actively refused things I've offered them. They want me to continue what I'm doing and not lose hope and the feeling I get of making something people are enjoying.
They're not paying for a finished meal. They're paying for the ingredients I have to buy to make the meal they crave.
3 Years of Service
First off, I don't get (I understand but I don't "get") how Patreon works, like at all.
Here, fund a game. Pay money. You get a few releases. Maybe it will get finished.
Substitute "game" for a cake, a car, a home, and it's "What in THE fuck?" for me.
If I ever do a game, I'll make the updates, post it here or on 95, when it's COMPLETED, THEN it goes on ANYTHING but Patreon... but I don't expect to get a dime, let alone live off it.
Again, as some have said, the entire payment model is flawed and rife for abuse IMO.
So, back to the OP question.
1-Shitty games get abandoned all the time, as per the above posters, and they just fly under your radar.
2-Shitty games with dev excuses survive all the time because milking.
3-Devs do AVNs because their mental and/or physical health can't allow for a 9-5 job. When either the mental or the physical give out... there goes the game... and maybe the dev.
4-Great games often have untenable premises: "Choices matter!" Great. Except the dev doesn't realize that each choice doubles the paths and therefore, doubles the work.
Ex: Unless it's Fuck / Do No Fuck skippable scenes on a single main path, this is the math:
1 choice = 2 paths.
2 choices = 4 paths.
4 choices = 16 paths.
8 choices = 256 paths... error... error... game abandoned WAY before that.
Yes, many games have more than 8 choices, but if you replay the game, you notice that either each path gets smaller, or they all go back to a "trunk" game after the 1 scene.
Or the dev is a fucking wizard that defies the existence of math... I dunno!
But when most devs hits the hard wall of dealing with all these paths (which paradoxically is why people LOVE that "choices matter" game)... the devs freak, are depressed, then bail.
Here, fund a game. Pay money. You get a few releases. Maybe it will get finished.
Substitute "game" for a cake, a car, a home, and it's "What in THE fuck?" for me.
If I ever do a game, I'll make the updates, post it here or on 95, when it's COMPLETED, THEN it goes on ANYTHING but Patreon... but I don't expect to get a dime, let alone live off it.
Again, as some have said, the entire payment model is flawed and rife for abuse IMO.
So, back to the OP question.
1-Shitty games get abandoned all the time, as per the above posters, and they just fly under your radar.
2-Shitty games with dev excuses survive all the time because milking.
3-Devs do AVNs because their mental and/or physical health can't allow for a 9-5 job. When either the mental or the physical give out... there goes the game... and maybe the dev.
4-Great games often have untenable premises: "Choices matter!" Great. Except the dev doesn't realize that each choice doubles the paths and therefore, doubles the work.
Ex: Unless it's Fuck / Do No Fuck skippable scenes on a single main path, this is the math:
1 choice = 2 paths.
2 choices = 4 paths.
4 choices = 16 paths.
8 choices = 256 paths... error... error... game abandoned WAY before that.
Yes, many games have more than 8 choices, but if you replay the game, you notice that either each path gets smaller, or they all go back to a "trunk" game after the 1 scene.
Or the dev is a fucking wizard that defies the existence of math... I dunno!
But when most devs hits the hard wall of dealing with all these paths (which paradoxically is why people LOVE that "choices matter" game)... the devs freak, are depressed, then bail.
3 Years of Service
Good games take a long time to make and have little thanks for the work, especially if it's an adult game where you risk condemnation from the stuck up types for making such a game.
2 Years of Service
In a Scent is apparently still in development.
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From Patreon:
Dev Talk - Unpausing
April 20
I'm back, bitches! That took longer than expected. I was originally expecting to be back up and running in March. Now that I'm back to full speed, I'll stop pausing Patreon, which automatically resumes billing on May 5th.
I have a lot of renders to catch up on. The development cycle over the past few months was very lopsided with a heavy emphasis on writing over rendering. I could watch my kid while typing on a laptop, whereas being able to sit on the desktop and render was not possible until he was asleep at night. Production had been slowly ramping back up as my kid was getting older and able to stay longer at daycare. He's now old enough to stay most of the day there.
The next release of In a Scent will be version 1.05, coming from version 1.035. This will include the second half of chapter 4 and the full chapter 5. I don't have a release day estimate but the bi-monthly dev talks will resume so you'll be able to follow the progress.
Thank you all for your patience,
Dom
2 Years of Service
I didn't actually mean to imply that most devs are scamming here- one reason I cited Lessons in Love, a game I'm pretty sure the dev is very sincere about completing. It's just that the current model makes it very easy for players to put quite a bit of money towards projects that don't get finished, sometimes even when the dev is serious about the game.
But your last sentence highlights why things are this way- if these games didn't have a way of seeing income long before they finished, many devs would basically not be able to create at all.
2 Years of Service
But I'm the Bad Guy should be burnt with fire. Lol
1 Year of Service
Today I learned The DeLuca Family is abandoned. (Well, maybe the dev will resurface since his update cadence is "update arrives only once you forget about it".)
---
As tiiiimp said, it's not so much that great, popular games get abandoned, but that those are the only ones you notice. There are a LOT of abandoned games out there, but if you never found them in the first place, or didn't enjoy them, you almost certainly wouldn't know they got dropped.
While AVNs are in some ways a bit easier than other genres to develop, they're still far from easy and do require at the minimum some skill, a sizable amount of time, and a bit of luck. When you invest so much time into getting started, only to make $10/mo at the end of it, that's really disheartening and leads to a lot of abandons there.
There's also the simple fact that a LOT of developers are solo, and AVNs take a long time to complete, so burnout is a huge problem. While taking a vacation for a few months is always an option, doing so will always lead to a loss in patronage, and will upset some people. As such, devs probably feel a push to never stop, only making the burnout worse until they eventually just snap and give up entirely.
---
As tiiiimp said, it's not so much that great, popular games get abandoned, but that those are the only ones you notice. There are a LOT of abandoned games out there, but if you never found them in the first place, or didn't enjoy them, you almost certainly wouldn't know they got dropped.
While AVNs are in some ways a bit easier than other genres to develop, they're still far from easy and do require at the minimum some skill, a sizable amount of time, and a bit of luck. When you invest so much time into getting started, only to make $10/mo at the end of it, that's really disheartening and leads to a lot of abandons there.
There's also the simple fact that a LOT of developers are solo, and AVNs take a long time to complete, so burnout is a huge problem. While taking a vacation for a few months is always an option, doing so will always lead to a loss in patronage, and will upset some people. As such, devs probably feel a push to never stop, only making the burnout worse until they eventually just snap and give up entirely.
U
A little bit of my thoughts on the matter
The developer started to make an amateur project, so, a simple experiment. He did something for fun, but some people liked it. There was some reason to continue. And the dude was slowly writing content. But suddenly(!) the stream of money was not enough to spend time and effort to work on the project, and the fan to continue most likely long gone.
The majority of people stupidly do not realize what a lot of time and effort it takes to create a game. And the fact that a person has this set of resources at some point in time and is ready to spend it on the game - does not mean that he will have it in a year, let alone 5 years.
For a user to download a game - a couple of mouse clicks, and for the developer tons of man-hours... And the users that are foaming at the mouth at the developers, that they are not ready to spend years of their lives on the game - they themselves often do not want to spend 10 minutes of their time to leave a review.
But the above I refer to good projects. As additional reasons - the developer's lack of an initially well-developed plot, writer's block, simple psychological burnout.
But you have listed really big projects, and how many abandoned one-day projects, in which the developers were only enough for 2-3 updates? There are dozens of times more such games and VNs doomed to a quick death.
The developer started to make an amateur project, so, a simple experiment. He did something for fun, but some people liked it. There was some reason to continue. And the dude was slowly writing content. But suddenly(!) the stream of money was not enough to spend time and effort to work on the project, and the fan to continue most likely long gone.
The majority of people stupidly do not realize what a lot of time and effort it takes to create a game. And the fact that a person has this set of resources at some point in time and is ready to spend it on the game - does not mean that he will have it in a year, let alone 5 years.
For a user to download a game - a couple of mouse clicks, and for the developer tons of man-hours... And the users that are foaming at the mouth at the developers, that they are not ready to spend years of their lives on the game - they themselves often do not want to spend 10 minutes of their time to leave a review.
But the above I refer to good projects. As additional reasons - the developer's lack of an initially well-developed plot, writer's block, simple psychological burnout.
But you have listed really big projects, and how many abandoned one-day projects, in which the developers were only enough for 2-3 updates? There are dozens of times more such games and VNs doomed to a quick death.
2 Years of Service
I have no idea how you conflate an AVN with a cake. It could, in a way, be seen as similar to a car payment or mortgage, but supporting is completely voluntary. No one is made to support. If you don't want to support, don't support. It is painfully obvious you've never tried to make an AVN. You're saying "if I ever do what these people are doing, I'd do it completely different." Go ahead, show us. I'll wait.
1 Year of Service
first of all guys lets keep the talk amicable bc someone already start to throw words like "stupidly" which isnt nice and far from truth , that been said let me be clear and say that aside from the "bad" devs that tries on purpose to suck out revenues as much as possible from a project before ghosting it and jumping to another , we do appreciate the genuine devs and sincere ones that really put their hearts in it but even tho thoses arguments and excuses you all meantioned are real and rough , it doesnt mean that this trade model isnt broken , we all have jobs sometimes we dont feel like getting up from bed and deal with it but we stil do it anyway bc we had to earn a living from it , and the contractors are bond to a contract they should finish the job one way or another they dont just walk away from it bc they burned out.
Yes and as someone before mentioned that subs and donations is not for a promised finished game or some kind of contract when it comes to this case and only for what its currently available and thats the problem , thats the loop even the shitty scammer devs exploit and hide behind the same excuses you guys mentioned. and it doesnt matter if we are on the other end where it only take us "few clicks" and "downloads" , it doesnt mean that we should kiss someones feets for completing a product.
And of course we are not forced to pay but lowkey "tricked" otherwise you wont unlock their new posts and updates on thier patreon or other paltforms , hell some devs even make a site dedicated for that game and sell it for a price, someone gave an exemple its like paying for ingredients to make a recipe for us , yeah well imagine paying a chef to prepare you a buffet only to take the money and ghost you , how would you feel about that , would you say maybe he dont have the physical or mental strenght to do it too ? give us a break and lets be real
Yes there are worthy devs who delivers masterpiece and they should be appreciate it bc at that case all that money earned its nothing but a thank you , but the point is , this trade model or whatever you wanna call it aint right and need to be fixed
Yes and as someone before mentioned that subs and donations is not for a promised finished game or some kind of contract when it comes to this case and only for what its currently available and thats the problem , thats the loop even the shitty scammer devs exploit and hide behind the same excuses you guys mentioned. and it doesnt matter if we are on the other end where it only take us "few clicks" and "downloads" , it doesnt mean that we should kiss someones feets for completing a product.
And of course we are not forced to pay but lowkey "tricked" otherwise you wont unlock their new posts and updates on thier patreon or other paltforms , hell some devs even make a site dedicated for that game and sell it for a price, someone gave an exemple its like paying for ingredients to make a recipe for us , yeah well imagine paying a chef to prepare you a buffet only to take the money and ghost you , how would you feel about that , would you say maybe he dont have the physical or mental strenght to do it too ? give us a break and lets be real
Yes there are worthy devs who delivers masterpiece and they should be appreciate it bc at that case all that money earned its nothing but a thank you , but the point is , this trade model or whatever you wanna call it aint right and need to be fixed
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