Dialogue heavy games

[PurgedMilk]

I'm working on my own Ren'Py VN game right now, and I'm curious where people draw the line on dialogue.


I like character interaction, so I tend to let conversations breathe instead of rushing straight from plot point to plot point or H-scene to H-scene. But I also don't want players thinking, "Alright, I get it. Can something happen now?"


What makes dialogue feel excessive to you?


Is it mostly scene length, or does it depend on whether the conversation is actually entertaining or developing the characters?


Do you mind normal conversations that don't immediately advance the plot—friends joking around, teasing each other, talking at lunch, etc.—if they make the cast feel more real?


Basically, where's the line between:


"This game has good character development."


and


"Holy shit, these people never stop talking."


I'd also love examples of games you think handle dialogue pacing really well or really badly.

 

[Redyscom]

It's not so much about the amount of text, but rather its quality.

You can enjoy reading a lot of text if it's well-written, doesn't ramble or drag things out unnecessarily, and is well-structured. In fact, it might even seem short to you. On the other hand, if it's not well-written—if it rambles too much or has grammatical or coherence errors—it will be a chore to read, no matter how short it is.

There are two things you should keep in mind:
- There are players who will always say there’s too much text or criticize it, even though the vast majority won’t have read it. Many are only there for the sex and nudity scenes (which, in my opinion, is a waste of time—you’re better off watching porn online instead of downloading a GAME you don’t want to play), so don’t expect the best feedback on your writing.
- A common mistake many developers make is forgetting that they’re creating a visual novel—the key is in the word “visual.” Don’t write anything that can be conveyed visually; don’t describe actions or expressions that can be shown in the game. Yes, it’s more work for you because it means creating more renders, but it makes the text easier to read.

As for the amount of writing you’re asking about, the best approach is to write and then read what you’ve written; that way, you’ll usually catch your own mistakes and can correct, refine, and improve them. Keep a clear idea of what you want to write, and don’t improvise as you go—that’s when you start to ramble.

 

[panicdragon]

I agree with what Redyscom said above.
Particular bugbears I have with dialogue is repeated phrases - it's gotta keep moving. Assume people are reading and paying attention.
I defeinitely think reading it back helps and probably something some creators just never do.
I think my other big peeve with dialogue is unrealistic reactions.Sometimes I think it's a limitation of a VN not having enough images - so the more in depth dialogue gets skipped over...but that leads to very surface level writing. Gotta have a story to tell, even if it's simple. Too many often peter out into scenes that just happen and the dialogue to connect them is just non-sensical.

 

[Don Tebjos]

I'm working on my own Ren'Py VN game right now, and I'm curious where people draw the line on dialogue.


I like character interaction, so I tend to let conversations breathe instead of rushing straight from plot point to plot point or H-scene to H-scene. But I also don't want players thinking, "Alright, I get it. Can something happen now?"


What makes dialogue feel excessive to you?


Is it mostly scene length, or does it depend on whether the conversation is actually entertaining or developing the characters?


Do you mind normal conversations that don't immediately advance the plot—friends joking around, teasing each other, talking at lunch, etc.—if they make the cast feel more real?


Basically, where's the line between:


"This game has good character development."


and


"Holy shit, these people never stop talking."


I'd also love examples of games you think handle dialogue pacing really well or really badly.

So, in my point of view: dialogues during sex. It's often the weakest part I see in writing, because you have a single image/ animation, but the text goes

Spoiler: Ok went a bit over the top there lol

"and then he lift her up, and she was like "OMG IT S SO BIG IKUU IKUU I CAN T BELIEVE IT S POUNDING MY PUSSY SO HARD AAA" while he was kissing greedily her breast and blablablabla..., before taking her hard doggystyle "AAAA NO IT S SO SHAMEFUL IN THIS POSITION OMGGGG", he remembered how she first seemed so innocent, in the cafe, and now she was begging for his huge cock to tear her apart "YOUR PUSSY IS DRIPPING SO MUCH ARE YOU OKAY?" he asked mischievously - "IKU IKU IKUU I CAN'T BELIEVE PROTAGONIST KUN IS TAKING ME SO HARD I'M CUMMING AGAIN AAAA"

Like Redyscom said, use sound effects, use more images, or even better lol use gameplay so the thing that is in the mind of the reader/ player is called upon, and he can fill the gaps himself.

Example that lastly made me quit because it tired me so fast: Happiness double room, despite the story having a strong potential

Counter example with no dialogue at all but gameplay and lots of details: Lost Life

Iirc this one was a good inbetween: Living Together with You as You Strive to Succeed, liked the writing, no redundance, never felt the need to skip the dialogues and gameplay loop was engaging (edit: no actually i DID skip the non gameplayable sex scenes iirc)

...Now I must precise I'm usually not a huge consumer of visual novels because I've been bored too often, but for what it's worth, I hope it helped anyway lol

 

[Mitomo727]

Very good advice in this thread, but I'll try adding my two cents regardless.

If you're going to be writing dialogue or descriptions for a character, make sure that character is actually relevant to the player and the plot. This may seem like obvious advice (and perhaps it is), but whenever I'm writing some character there are times I'll really get into it until I realize "oh wait, this is just some irrelevant extra that'll never be brought up again".

Same thing I've spotted in a number of games (usually RPGM titles) where it'll be some bumfuck random NPC that exists for the sole reason of giving a quest, and yet they're given a name, a description and maybe even a backstory and good grief can we just get on with it?

So, yeah, use your writing resources tactfully. Again, probably self-apparent, but it really bugs me when I spot it in the wild or I catch myself doing it.

 

[AlBetGam]

Very good advice in this thread, but I'll try adding my two cents regardless.

If you're going to be writing dialogue or descriptions for a character, make sure that character is actually relevant to the player and the plot. This may seem like obvious advice (and perhaps it is), but whenever I'm writing some character there are times I'll really get into it until I realize "oh wait, this is just some irrelevant extra that'll never be brought up again".

Same thing I've spotted in a number of games (usually RPGM titles) where it'll be some bumfuck random NPC that exists for the sole reason of giving a quest, and yet they're given a name, a description and maybe even a backstory and good grief can we just get on with it?

So, yeah, use your writing resources tactfully. Again, probably self-apparent, but it really bugs me when I spot it in the wild or I catch myself doing it.

I think this depends. In a VN you likely don't need to spend time having background characters talk (even if it's a sandbox; just don't let my click on that random extra and there's no need for her to have lines).

But in an RPGM game where the basic mechanics mean the player can walk around and attempt to talk to every character sprite, those characters should have something to say, even if it's just a stock line; the game feels very empty and unfinished if none of the people in the crowded marketplace respond when you try to talk to them. The corollary to that of course is that you don't want to add a whole lot of character sprites if they aren't needed.

Re: the overall question:

A good practice would probably be to read your dialogue out loud, maybe with a friend (real life or online); if that feels like it's taking forever or is just boring, it may be a good sign the dialogue itself is excessive or uninteresting.